I thought you were quitting the game??? Ducktales.
Is it worth doing --> KKK cr.lk, FADC, KKK ultra … when the situation presents it…?
I also tryed KKK cr.lk, FADC, PPP ultra … i was’nt able to hit it in the corner or mid screen. Is this FADC even possible…? Anyone tryed it?!
thats a flashy combo but talking about effectiveness and worthiness, imho waste of super and revenge meter unless you really need to end the match with that extra damage
edited: oh i thought you could hit confirm that from crane sLP but i was wrong, fadc doesnt come out maybe due to the fact that you chained s.LP xx c.LK, and yeah as we know crane cLK is really unsafe if not properly hit confirmed (and on many crouching characters cant be hit confirmed consistently due to hurtboxes issues during hitstun)
PPP ultra1 doesnt seem to connect, anyway if you are in the corner you just do the mantis ultra after launching the opponent with cLK =P
Yeah the PPP ultra in the corner after KKK cr.lk work fine. Its a bummer that the PPP ultra does’nt work after FADC KKK cr.lk… that would be sweet!!
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No. You don’t have time to hit-confirm so if they block the c.lk you just wasted 2 bars of meter. Even if you landed it off a crossup like KKK j.mk you just spent 2 bars and your ultra for 341/220 stun. A safer, more easily-confirmable combo with 2x higher stun and only 10-20 less damage would be PPP mp, mk hands FADC into mp,mp,mk hands or mp, mk/hp xx lk gekiro or just hp xx gekiro
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no it’s not, but you can mix them up in the corner with overheads then get your c.lk, PPP ultra for big damage. If you c.lk and keep buffering qcf’s you have time to confirm your ultra. The closer to the corner they are the more time you have to confirm.
Bonus nonsense: you can also hands FADC KKK c.lk PPP Ultra but you have to do it frame-perfect against lots of characters and the damage/stun/meter loss once again isn’t justifiable when you can just FADC into bigger combos anyway.
Thanks I forgot about this. A long time ago I saw someone use it to keep someone in the corner, I think it was either Hoigek or Genshir0. Anyways I started using it and it worked great. It still works great, just don’t use it vs mashers. But at least you can bait them out. My game is SUPER rusty, but it’s slowly coming back. My footsies still needs work, and I need to start punishing jump-ins. And practice teching. I keep getting thrown when you see my crouching short come out. Damn Gen’s Option Select is garbage compared to other characters. Anyways back to the lab.
Just delay your crouch tech more. You’re just timing it bad. Sometimes I will throw LATE so that I throw their OS tech. It’s really fun :D.
just been thinking…
Does Gen have a certain way he’s ment to be played? … is his play style governed by the moves he has at his disposal?
what you guys think?..
I used to think he was supposed to play like a rushdown character but these days I suspect he’s supposed to play more patiently. He never gains the momentum characters like ibuki, fuerte, viper, or akuma do no matter how hard I try to force it, especially since his jump arc was normalized in super. Against some characters with weak AA, bad footsies, or really low health (or just really bad players) I can still rush them down with crane but I’ve had more success recently since I started grounding myself and playing patiently with footsies and AA, which are actually very strong compared to lots of the roster
Just my 2 cents.
here are my 2cts:
you have to (drum roll) get in, then you have tons of options to pressure your opponent with A LOT of frametraps, overhead in between, poke with ppp c.lk and of course kara throw. for me its one of his most usefull tools (yeah it doesnt cover much range but still). people start teching ultra late after youve applied some frametraps -> leads to a lot of counterhits BUT! even or should i say especially good players start to mash, theyll do it in a controlled way compared to scrubs and thats where things will get complicated especially agains ken… you cant/i cant hitconfirm into really big damage after a succesfull counterhit (without super). some good reads/mashed dps will nullify your efforts. imo thats the point where canceling into oga could be usefull.
kara throw should be used like kens -> throwing crouchtechers at a distance and for mixup purposes. compared to ken timing is more essential. still trying to incorporate this stuff into my game.
else you have to play really solid footsies and being able to read properly. punish with c.mp hands and sweeps. in fact one good read AAing with shaku kkk U1 increases your chances to win by 200% and should be applied as often as possible. downside is shaku lacks priority ;( on the other hand you could try to play shenanigans with kkkU2 but the travel speed sucks so i wouldnt do it till AE comes out. if he will get his old meter gain back than…OMG…
but some people around know probably better approaches
maybe if we know the weak spots gen has, maybe we can find ways to mask them, and in turn know how gen is best played
one weakness im seeing a lot of is consistant ability to anti air. certain characters seem like they get free jump ins at certain ranges. ©d+RH works well if they come down on top of you, but i find myself limited by the normals in that stance. i can offensively poke with cr.mp, but it sucks for whiff punnishes
on the other hand, in mantis you can defensively whiff punnish with the sweep vs anything, but you give up the anti air if you dont have meter. cr.fp and st.fp work well at certain ranges, but a character like bison for example beats both of those for free with his jump fierce
just typing this makes me think…
maybe i should flip my thinking. use crane for most of my non combo offense. like in case someone jumps a predicted poke i got my AA ready. and maybe i should space myself better in mantis and use it more reactively.
if im not always hitting buttons in mantis, i can react better with air to airs and whiff punnishes etc. maybe use mantis more methodically.
obviously things play out differently once you get in or score a KD, im just talking about from the neutral aspect of matches
gen also has a very nice dash, which lets you go under pretty much any deep jump-in (which are the most critical) you want
switching stance according to which ground AA you need is difficult, i have been able to do that just few times, but still i think its a skill which can be developed with hard work
and as we all know he has very good air normals, which can be used to AA with neutral jump better than most character…
crane jLK never-loses-to-anything, if you are using it as you neutral jump AA, and if you want to beat their neutral jump AA (like chun’s or honda’s or seth’s)
for more damage and slightly more risk you can neutral jump with KKK jMP/jHP, PPP jHK (very good on backjump too)
neutral jump shakudan doesnt have very good priority compared to the aforementioned normals, i would use it only to juggle into crane U1, and it often works
KKK and PPP jMK dont have the best hitboxes, but they have tons of active frames, and most of the times you can AA with those too
that thing about playig rushdown, it can somehow be done but it requires a lot more effort than vanilla since he got range nerfs and insane pushback on hands
Same here. A footsie/poke game is what keeps me alive, especially since I don’t play him often enough to keep my execution at top. Using hands to build meter and create distance works very well for Gen.
Use C.HP/C.HK alot and the opponent will start Focusing, then counter with MKxxHands.
Use MKxxHands alot and the opponent will be caught by surprise by your longer pokes.
Mantis S.HK and Crane S.MK are made purely for counterpoking, though Mantis S.MP is often easier to use as it’s faster and safer.
Lack of reliable 3f move and bad reversals makes him rather weak up close in my opinion, but as long as you’ve got frame advantage it’s all good.
Does gen really have “A LOT” frame traps??? …
I’ve only mananged to use PPP st.mp, cr.lp, st.mp (optional mk hands after) and PPP st.mp, st.mp. Both of these frame traps have worked well for me.
By “a lot of frame traps”, I think people simply mean that he’s got alot of options after his LPs and S.MP.
maybe its more correct to say: anything that has lesser startup than 8 frames applied after a blocked s.mp leads to a frame trap. moves with 7fr startup would be one framers but ive not seen anyone who was able to counter s.mp ~ c.mk… besides really brutal mashers… or people with turbo buttons…(no joke)
shit, wasnt fast enough:P
i actually meant a lot when i said it.
frame traps in super sf4 are basically counterhit set ups. they work to punnish your opponet for pressing butons.
there are a few general rules, but you can create them just by looking at the frame data
crouch tech loses to frame gaps of 5-8, depending on your opponents timing of hitting cr.lk+lp in your strings. i’ll give out some character specific examples, and you can look at high level match vids to see when they apply them
chun-cr.lk, cl.st.RH-5frames
adon-cr.lk, cl.st.FP-8 frames
fei long-cr.lk, cl.st.Mp-5 frames
bison-cr.lk, cl.st.FP-7 frames
rose-cr.lk, cl.st.RH-7 frames
the idea being to counterhit you opponent out of their startup when they press cr.tech when they think your normal will be keeping them in block stun. a fake tick throw, basicaly. watch any high level vid of these characters, and you will see the various traps being employed. crouch tech beats tick throws, and frame trapping against crouch tech will in turn open up tick throws again.
anti crouch tech frame traps will lose to mindless jab spam, and standing throw tech, and obviously invincible reversals.
this post has potential to get really long, so i’ll wind it up with gen specific cr.tech beaters, and i’ll make another post later about how to frame trap around jab spam and how to beat standing tech
in mantis-
cr.lp, cr.mpxxxhands-5 frames
cr.lp, cr.mkxxxhands-5 frames
cr.lp, cr.hp-5 frames
cr.lp, hk-6 frames
cr.lk, cr.mpxxxhands-6 frames
cr.lk, cr.mkxxxhands-6 frames
cr.lk, cr.hp-6 frames
cr.lk, hk-7 frames
in crane-
cr.lp, cr.mp-5 frames
also (m)mp, walk up, mp works depending on your timing, and ive had success with cr.mp, st.mkxxhands. there are other traps you can make in theory, but ive found that if you use something less than -1 as the initial attack, it has a much higher chance of getting stuffed
you can optionally not use hands of course and the traps will still work. the other characters traps i listed are really good because most of them are comboable after the counter hit, so that is also something to consider
Hi guys, first of all I’m not very good with Gen (can’t do consistent MK hands, still trying).
I’d like to know what’s the point of using Crane stance; to me it seems nearly useless since Mantis has better normals and isn’t limited to charging. Other than using it’s low crossup into Mantis combo I don’t use it at all.
just few things about crane stance, hope you find this useful
- cHK is one of gen’s best anti air tool, if not the best without using meter
- sMP, the overhead, is crucial in your mixup game, and unlike many people think, it has insane range
- cMP is a good poke, can cancel into his roll which is relatively safe*, on CH the whole HP roll connects
- jLK, jMP, jHP, jHK are incredibly good air to air moves
- crane’s jump arch is deceptive and a pain in the ass, and jMK is very good for crossups, as you said
- cHP (great range) and sHP are situational attacks which do tons of damage
- cMK goes under most fireballs
- crane Super is godlike and really easy to use as an anti air, due to its hyper fast startup
- faster walk speed
you shouldnt put crane stance aside, both stances are important, and you find in crane a lot of stuff which mantis stance does not give you =)
for combos and block strings, mantis all the way… but crane stance is absolutely FULL of situational and extremely useful attacks, on and off the ground
*just dont do that against characters with a 1/2/3 frames reversal… well at least if they know it can be punished ._.
i never really thought of using cr.lp or cr.lk as a frame trap. i only ever use them as some sort of block string, tick throw setup and to hide my stance changes.
can you explain the below frame traps…? … i was under the impresion that cr.hp and st.hk dont combo after a cr.lk or cr.lp. How do they work in a fram trap?
in mantis-
cr.lp, cr.hp-5 frames
cr.lp, hk-6 frames
cr.lk, cr.hp-6 frames
cr.lk, hk-7 frames