good point: taunting time! which is the best? i use #4 / #5 - has some nice “I’m an old chinese martial artist! Be aware!” style in it xD
#6 is way too long =/
i honestly don’t think gen is all that bad. but damn, when you compare him to akuma. akuma easily trumps what his has.
one thing i really dont get is why does akuma have possibly the best teleport in the game yet gens ex oga doesnt go thru strikes anymore AND it takes a bar. akumas dp comes out much faster and more invincible. akuma has better normals and better combos too. gens have more reach overall, but akumas comes out much faster.
but enough complaining. i dont think gen is bad. his main tools got weakened from sf4 (low jump mantis, mk xx hands, meter building, ex oga) but everything else is better. he might not get back his alpha chains, but he has a lot of links in mantis stance.
his ground crane normals which were pretty bad in sf4 got totally revamped. c.mk going under most fireballs is nice. c.mp doesnt get you killed on block is also nice. and his standing mp overhead. its pretty decent now.
i love his u2s. mantis reversal u2 is not bad vs fireball strings. crane u2 is very nice. he controls the air even more. its not bad for an air to air but sometimes it whiffs. once u have u2, you can pretty much train your opponent to stop pressing buttons to hit gen out of the air or jumping at him.
his oga is unsafe if done extremely deep, but you can make it safe by learning the distances. since its faster now, its easier to catch fidgeting opponents. you can tack on both his u1 and both supers after a successful oga. with no meter, his gekiro is pretty much guaranteed or a sweep, which both leads to an untechable knockdown (not too sure about a completed gekiro tho)
my fav gen colors are black, default and light blue. dark shirtless gen is awesome too.
Yea I should add that I backdash way too much on wakeup as well. I’m pretty spoiled when it comes to characters with good backdashes since I played Gen & Chun in vanilla. I’m playing Makoto as well who also has a great backdash. I mess around with Adon a little but his sucks :x
I really dont think Gen is that bad either when compared to the rest of the cast. His improvements in Crane (st.mp, st.hp, cr.mp) have been VERY nice for me. I can now comfortably poke with cr.mp and not worry about eating an SRK or super ON HIT. That shit made me rage so much in the early days of vanilla. mk xx hands as a footsies tool is still extremely effective. Mk still has very respectable range, it’s fast, and the entire string is great for stuffing FAs. Once you get the opponent afraid of FAing you, you can use his longer range pokes like mantis cr.hp. I also love the buff to Gekiro and that fact that it’s FINALLY immune to throws. There were a ton of situations in vanilla where I knew a throw was coming (like after a blocked FA) but my only option was to attempt to tech it. The new Gekrio lets me punish the opponent if I guess correctly. It’s also great on wakeup as a “get off me” move. I thought the loss of EX Oga would destroy Gen defensively, but it hasn’t turned out as bad as I anticipated. The worst thing about Gekiro is that it can be safe jumped.
It recently occurred to me that I wasn’t using mantis cr.hk in footsies enough. Granted its stupidly punishable in the opponent anticipates it, but it’s fucking awesome when used sparingly. The range is ridiculous and I catch soooooo many people that don’t expect to be swept from that far.
Finally I cant wait until his new outfit is officially released. I’m gonna rock that shit all day. For taunts I actually like #1 and #8. With #8 he turns his back and says “Come to me!” It’s definitely an appropriate taunt when fighting some turtle ass Rog/Blanka/Honda.
yea i love his new alt costume. but for the regular costumes i use normal green and red. i dont use his other alt costume even tho it bad ass. even tho i like his crane ultra 2, mantis ultra 2 while bad ass just a waste of ultra in my view. rather have a ultra that does damage then just have them heal it.
I use his first alternate costume, in white.
Well where do you think he places relatively? He’s not awful like a lot of people here like to exaggerate, but I still think he places damn low overall.
What’s an effective way to deal with Rose’s U2? Last night I had a set of about 22 matches with a Rose player, and although it was 17-5 to me, his U2 gave me vast amounts of grief. It seems Gen has literally no way of preventing himself from eating the ultra. Everything I tried resulted in me getting hit.
Block low?
If she uses her ultra randomly (It’s better used for a combo) just block low. Her shenanigans usually include sliding to hit you and consequently her ultra, or crossing up at which point you’d have to block whichever side she is on at the moment. I mean what is she going to do else? She has no overhead or anything. If you’re feeling lucky you can try to do a normal attack in between her orbs to completely shut down her ultra, or throw if she’s next to you on start up.
Okay I get that you can block it, but then all she really needs to do is zone me out with SS’s. If i try to neutral jump one she’ll dash in and get me with the ultra, and if I try to focus absorb them she usually spaces it in a way where she can poke me out of it (again making me eat the ultra). There seems to me no surefire way to escape this if the Rose player has any idea what they’re doing at all. I don’t know how long her ultra lasts, but it seems all I can do is turtle and wait it out.
It lasts 10 seconds I think, not sure.
So what if she zones you out? Again, just block. There isn’t much more to it then blocking and maybe try to poke her through the orbs if that oppertunity presents itself.
excuse my grammer since i’,m a bit buzzed now. maybe i’ll edit the post in the morining when i awke up.
but yeah, heres what i think. hes easier to use in ssf4 compared to sf4 but harder to win with compared to his sf4 version. almost all his matches got harder, but its much easier to land big damage right now with meter compared to sf4 where you need to rely on mk xx hands x2 fadc into mk xx hands x2 again.
as to where hes ranked, i think hes around kens level which is about mid. like ken, hes good all around but nothing overpowering or too good to catipault him to the top tier or severely lacking in anything tto be bottom tier. but of course there has to be someone thats low tier and unfortunately its him.
hes the most revamped character in ssf4. as i saidf before, his main tools has gotten weakened (ex oga, low jump mantis, mk xx hands x2, mk range and meter building) but everything else has improved (crane normals, hit confirmable hands xx super, damage and/or speed increase on his supers, etc. but all these changes werent enough to make up for his main tools in sf4, therefore hes slightly weaker than he was in sf4, while pretty much every character has gotten better minus the top tiers and gouken.
almost all the characters he has an advantage against or went even with has improve vastly compared to him. ex: abel, chun, guile
given his high learning curve, shitty stamina and mediocre damage output without meter, its easy to see why people ranked him low. i think hes just as good as adon, guy, ken, t hawk, etc. definitely C rank which is pretty7 much mid tier.
that the thing even with his high learning curve (damn you piano masters) hehe. i feel at home using gen more then any other character in street fighter 4. even more then ibuki who i love in 3rd strike. that why it been so hard to try to learn anyone else because i had the most fun playing with gen and i be damned that what i learn from him goes to waste.
He’s definately low mid tier, or low tier.
Basically every character he had an even match with has gotten improved (fucking Guile…) and he got slightly worse. As Ouroborus said he’s easier to use in this version yet there is hardly any reward. In vanilla if you mastered mk hands mk hands fadc mk hands mk hands you’d have a great rewarding experience with Gen aswell as an escape tool (ex Oga).
In SSFIV you still have a single mk hands, the ability to hitconfirm super with hands (if you even have the chance to get your super), and some improved normals (although mk range is less, wtf Capcom?). It just doesn’t compensate unfortunately. The only good thing is that you are forced to learn to play footsies well with Gen, although that’s hardly a real advantage considering his weaknesses.
I had the same problem, letting him go sucks due to the work you’ve put in. I still managed to switch though by just making Gen my secondary. That way I don’t feel like I’m wasting him.
yea that the thing i still want to learn how to piano as it would help my execution and speed overall and the only one who has something like gen is e honda which may be easier to piano for me since it hitting the mk with my thumb always feels weird to me. it just sucks, i had mk hands mk hands as a goal that once i gotten down i knew i have gotten better i just dont have my big goal anymore haha.
tell you one thing tho i just made a gief rage quit muahha even a weaker gen plus my scrubby execution is still enough to beat the mash 3 buttons gief muaha. drop down oga for the win, and plus guess right helps too. first rage quit for me in super haha.
man do i need to play more local haha online fun but not as fun as local gatherings.
really? “big damage with meter now”? did i missed something? ^^
he’s definetly not mid tier. he IS placed at the bottom (doesnt make him bad tho, but if you count the match ups, u’ll see that gen has NO match in his favor. 5-5 is the best he get, and in ssf4 he has way more 4-6 and one or two more 7-3 matchups.
again: saying that he’s low tier doesnt make him worse (nor saying that he’s midtier making him any better, ppl tend to believe that). just for the record.
Gen lacks a good zoning tool to deal with fireball spammers. the only good way to close in would be oga, sadly - it’s unsave. other characters have various ways to close in.
in footsies he lacks an outstanding poke. imo mk should be like bisons s.mk or zangiefs s.mp.
in defense situations all we have is the unsafest revearsal in the game. (tho, we can’t get comboed into it, since he’s airborne state.)
…
gen became a CLOSE CLOSE CLOSE RANGE fighter who has low stamina, low stun, low unrewarding damage at a high risk.
he feels alot like blanka imo. you’ve “noobcrusher” moves (and even then you’ve to work) like oga. but once known - they become nearly useless. blankafactor.
he lacks constant tools to deal with every character / situation. for instance your mentioned ken. he has GREATcombo potencial, does big damage, has a really good range poke, no low health / stun, good anti air, and for zoning a fireball. even on mid range c.mk => hado stuff any gen normal.
you give yourself enough reason to see what’s going on^^
BTW: chun and blanka also have piano moves, not only gen and honda @ above me.
I’ve an idea. why dont we make a matchup chart?
e.g this is how mine would look compared to the sf4 table: http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2008/oct/17/street-fighter-4-tiers-character-rankings/
(order is copied, no tierlist intended)
SAGAT 7-3
RYU 6-4
AKUMA 6-4
BALROG 6-4
RUFUS 5-5
ZANGIEF 7-3
CHUN-LI 6-4
SETH 6-4
BLANKA 5-5
M. BISON 6-4
C. VIPER 6-4
ABEL 6-4
E. HONDA 7-3
GOUKEN 5-5
KEN 6-4
ROSE 5-5
DHALSIM 5-5
FEI LONG 4-6
CAMMY 5-5
SAKURA 4-6
EL FUERTE 5-5
GUILE 7-3
GEN -
VEGA 5-5
DAN 5-5
Total: 101 compared to 108 from vanilla.
He got better vs: Blanka (quite unsure, but c.hk makes things easier) and Rufus (ex gekiro rulz vs him)
And his matchup got worse vs: Sagat (jump arc), Chun (she just got better), Viper (ex oga is missing), Abel (ex oga is missing), Ken (he got better, dmg is huge, zoning improved) and much more worse vs Guile (doesnt need any explanation imo) and Honda (better AA, and really, 1-2 hits n u’r dead. most underrated char imo)
Imo for Super Characters:
Cody 4-6
Adon 5-5
T.Hawk 5-5
Dee Jay 4-6
Juri 4-6
Hakan 6-4
Dudley 5-5
Makoto 6-4
Ibuki 4-6
keep in mind. everything is subjective and merely for discussion purpose, not selling it as a fact or anything.
yea i think im going to go with somone else as my main. vanilla gen was like okay i have to work twice as hard for the same amount of damage np i can handle that. now he like okay i have to work twice as hard for half the damage they are doing yea im done.
zUkUu yea i know chun and blanka have piano move but i hate them so im either going with honda ibuki or akuma. might use honda because i play in hdr and it will help me be wait for the right moment to attack. so im thinking honda my main with ibuki akuma and gen as second.
sry guys but he not worth the frustration i get from playing him anymore. when a sagat takes a big chunk of my heath from a grab and i have to do about 2 combos to do the same to him is stupid.
still sucks tho gen my favorite street fighter character even more so then ibuki who i started playing street fighter with. i still help out as much as i can in here but im going to start looking a honda stuff.
you know what i hate?, when ive been blocking in crane, and i walk foward to poke with cr.mp, and i get a roll.
or when i forget which stance im in, and i either try to sweep a jump in mantis, or i try to 37 frame crouch fierce a jump in, in crane
I sometimes forget what stance I’m in and try to sweep and get crane c.hk too, so horrible :chat:
Worst thing that happens to me. Sometimes I get lucky and actually hit the opponent, but even then you’ll still be punished:crybaby:.
I’d say he’s low-mid tier at worst. Quite frankly I dont care, as I currently dont have a matchup that makes me think “this shit is impossible.” I actually think his matchup against Sagat got better since vanilla. I fucking HATED fighting Sagat in vanilla because of his ridiculous zoning, damage and health. One small mistake and you’re eating his lolcombo for 70% of your health. Fuck that bullshit. The Gen-Sagat match is much more tolerable now. He can still zone you like a bitch, but his damage is nowhere near as bad. I still think that Honda and Sim wreck Gen pretty bad though. If there is anyone that beats Gen 7-3 they should be at the top IMHO.
That’s not any sort of advantage though, because that’s a result of his nerfs, not buffs. It’s in the same vein as “The good thing about Seth is that you have to learn to never ever ever let yourself get hit by anything”
I think that’s enough complaining though, weird nerfs, but we’re here to learn and adapt, not simply complain.
And that’s why alt 1 costume is so beautiful! You look stylish and it’s impossible to not know what stance you’re in >_>