Gen General Discussion Thread: Theory Fighter!

hi, new to gen.

had a quick look around in the forums and been messing with him in training mode.

i never even tried gen in vanilla but pushed by the all to c achievement i have give him a go and i am really surprised by how much i like him.

i would like some tips regarding stance changes and general help with crane stance.

i get confused when i try to start swapping stances so i have been using him just in mantis all the time.
i figured you can get the other stances ultra straight away by double tapping the 3 buttons but what about using the other stances super?

is there ways to charge in mantis then instantly do a charge special from crane without changing stances first?

best times/ways to change stances.

are you using a stick or controller? if you use a stick do you press all three buttons or use KKK or PPP with one button? I find KKK and PPP with three buttons is faster. Using all three to switch stance is fine even if you plink, but you have to be careful using it if you press all three for ultra, if you do so and have Super Meter you might trigger the super.

what really matters is your ability to keep track of what stance you are in, you must pay attention. There’s no real way to help you with that other than using your memory. Really the only tool to help you with this is using his 2nd Costume. His mask changes between red and blue depending on what stance you are in.

Using a super for the other stance basically is press XXX then X. that’s how I do it. Practice it. Go into training be in Mantis, have the dummy jump. Switch from Mantis to Crane then use the super.

i use stick.
got him to c rank today.

i couldn’t land the anti air ultra (ultra1 set obviously)
what is the timing for that?

similar to Air to Air normal antiair
or using a late DP antiair
?

utlra 1 one has a rather slow start up.
super has 1(!) frame start up and can be used even if the opponent is on the way down after a crossup or such. the slightest airborne state will catch it.

best a2a normal is crane j.hp, and j.lk in both stances followed by both mks.
for aa purpose use hk / mk / ex gekiro or crane c.hk. to a certain degree s.hk aswell. in mantis best aa normal would be c.hp.

edit: ah missread.

crane u1 has 10 frames starup. considering most jumps have 24 air frames you can think of that you can only catch their jump arc till the highest peak, on the downfall it’s often too late. so you’ll have kinda foresee their jumps to buffer the input.
but there are other ways to connect his ultras to make up for.

really Crane ultra 1 is only good vs air moves that keep them air-borne longer. Like Guy’s Flip or C.Vipers flame kick.

one of my favorite A2A is Crane j.MP.

this is a bug bear of mine,

when it comes to air to air normals it is important to know whether people are talking about neutral jumps or angled jumps.

lol um okay. here …

one of my favorite A2A is neutral jump Crane MP and Angled Jump Crane MP. Better?

i only would use j.mp while backjump. dunno, for forward there are better options imo.

also @mr list
the notation for angled jump is plain “j.mp” neutral jump would be “nj.mp” - so in case you ever read “j.xx” you should think of an angeled jump, unless described before.

ahhhh, thanks.

i like the hit box of j.mp, it can stuff a alot but it all depends on the character and where they are. like Chun Li, I prefer mantis A2As

Had a question: are cross unders prey to auto correct specials/supers/ultras? e.g. a connected oga to jab reset cross-under. has anyone ever been auto-corrected by a horizontal (or Z) charge move?

I’m pretty sure there is a point where it can be auto corrected. Have I been hit by it? no. I remember seeing a weird auto correct with vega. Forgive me I don’t remember it very well. Usually with cross unders if you feel you are playing vs someone who might mash, just block.

due to shortcut system you can just mash like a retard and you get it out.

If you cross under fast enough you will almost never get punished by a horizontal charge move.

I remember yeb saying this, but today I got safe jumped by Ryu’s j.LK after getting knocked down. I got out KKK super as a reversal, he was airborne, and while Gen was saying “DIE!!!”, Ryu landed on the ground. He later punished me after I whiffed completely.
I really wish j.LK of Ryu/Ken/Akuma had hurtbox like Gouken’s.

wow…so mentioning hurtbox i’d assume you did crane lk.super right? so it wasn’t so much a safe jump as he was out of range (hurtbox-wise)? i mean a 1 frame safe jump is pretty beast/difficult imo.

Hitbox/Hurtbox was purely a complaint that is unrelated to the crane super and the safe jump. It’s just that I’m traumatized by shoto’s j.LK.

He could have done a j.MK and would have still landed safely, and i was using MK super.

No you just got safe jumped. The hitbox has nothing to do with it. The ryu was only airborne for 1 frame once your super flashed and landed by the time the second frame(the first active frame) came out.

Where can I buy a pool glove offline? >_>

Gen Color of Choice

I’m first off glad to see there are dedicated Gen players as no one I know personally will take him up, they say he’s “too difficult” and “doesn’t damage enough.” So in addition to Guy, (as I have been an Akuma / Fei Long player since they came into the SF series) I took up Gen. When I got all his costumes (which in SS4 the alt is great) I still have love for his original costume which I use in Orange. Whenever I do I appropriately dub him “Tangerine Dream” Gen, and proceed to mop the floor with everyone chill with that plays SS4. Their opinions of him being “weak” have since changed to, “I f*****g hate Gen”

Just found a Q&A with Seth Killian

Q: Why did you guys change Gen so much in SSF4? You nerfed his EX-Oga invincibility, Medium Kick to Hands loop, his jump arc and other things. What he got in return wasn’t enough. Did you set out to make Gen low tier?

Seth Killian: While I see where you’re coming from with Gen, I can at least tell you that the game balance and tweaking almost never starts with the idea, “we should nerf so-and-so,” (so Gen wasn’t somehow targeted for being made weaker).

During the course of balancing, all the characters go on a bit of a rollercoaster ride of being stronger and weaker versions of themselves.

For instance, the Abel that was shipped was one of the strongest versions of Abel that existed during SSFIV development. This wasn’t part of a master plan, and there is no pre-set scheme to try and make the rankings look one particular way (like “Gouken should be #1, and Blanka should be 8th!”).

When it came time to ship the game, Abel went out the door as a relatively strong version of his different incarnations. For Gen (always a tricky character to balance, given his large amount of moves, and unusual features), he was caught a bit on the lower side.

I certainly don’t feel Gen is somehow hopeless (and lord knows I’ve done my fair share of losing to him), but I see the issues and am certainly unhappy that a lot of Gen-loving players seem to like him less than they did before.

Arcade version of SSFIV may have some surprises in store, so stay tuned…