Garou: MOTW Thread

Man f this. I’m making my own tier list. Bash this mess.

God:
Kevin-roto and twich cancels + best AB in the game + unusually safe attacks + mix and match combos = damn that’s a beast. All the button presses can be awkward at first though.

Top:
Gato-can haki-kyaku for meter(qcb k~a when hands go up), can mixup(tri. jump, trip, anti air, or fireball) off of one special, and he as the absolute hands down best super in the game IMO: Zero Fucking Kiba! That super punishes too much shit, and connects off of everything…seriously, and he has another zero frame super too? wtf? He is hard to use though at first.

Terry-can deal out a lot of damage in a short amount of time, or guard crush you in that same amount of time, has one of the best anti airs in the game, it his people out of everything if time right, has buster wolf, which has mad priority, and is very damaging to boot, great normals and specials all around, he has trouble building meter though, which is why Gato and Kev are higher to me.

Grant-can also kill you in a short amount of time, has a lot of moves that you think were not safe but are, two very good supers(anti air and whirlygig), sickingly easy corner combos that do too much damage, is very versatile and can be played turtle or rushdown, problem though, his shit is easily jd’ed if seen coming, and he has it bad when he’s locked down, and without meter, he doesn’t really have any reliable anti air.

Jae-can take chunks of your life bar off with one fucking jab or low b, has an autoguard special that blocks mids, low jump a annoys people too much, can attack from a backdash and cancel it in to things, has the dad’s phoenix flattener super, capable of causing damage and locking down with feints like terry, is momentum dependant, and it is a MUST to get damage off of any connect light normal.

Mid:

Marco/Butt-Oustanding normals all around, great fireball, 3 supers that are pretty useful, fwd + a on hit can be comboed adding to his mixup, has a counter which can also be used for mobility and to start combos if it is a CH, has the hardest break in the game, which makes it hard to get damage, since all of his most damaging stuff comes from his break, also has trouble keeping momentum while having it, as things can be punished a little easier than most IMO.

Jenet-has an air throw, good fireball, great ab’s, absolutely great lockdown ability in the corner, nice supers all 3 of em, great mixups in the corner, and has a move that can cancel from a lot of stuff (down + k from any jump, st. ab, or backdash), has a lot of trouble outside of the corner, which takes away a lot of her options, can be st. a’ed out of her down + k, or jd’ed if seen coming.

Rock-has two very good ab’s(st. is good for kara’s), got the rage run mixes still, the light versions of his special moves are generally safe, good supers, a breakable throw, that can lead to further mixups, can get big damage off counter hits, has counters that are effective, moves are plenty predictable, so mixups will be guessed upon often, and cannot do much damage without meter.

Hokutomaru-best fireball in the game(throws 3 stars at once?), can also throw fireballs from a backdash, can double jump, can get good damage without meter, has teleports, has an air throw, has corner lockdown potential, jd and guard cancels destroy him sadly, most of his moves are highly punishable.

Hotaru-a very good fireball, ok’ish dp, has an air throw, a command throw, has a air kick move that can punish a lot of stuff, VERY good comboability, has a great anti air super, great air normals, takes a lot of work to win, as it can be quite difficult to get in with her, reflect kick doesn’t even reflect half the time, free combo off of a blocked air special, most of her moves are not safe.

Dong Hwan-complete and utter air dominance at times(same normals as Jae, air down + k, air back + c, an air super that connect from j. a?), great normals, very good dp, specials help out with the mixup, can lockdown like his brother, bad comboablity, ALL of his special moves are punishable on block or hit(with the exception of his dp, but that is still punishable with a timed down + ab), no way to stop anyone if they succeed on keeping them grounded, takes an immense amount of work to win.

Kain-plenty good normals, good ab’s(down ab links to st. c), ok fireballs, outstanding TOP attack, throw connect to charge d, u k in corner, can rush or turtle effectively, needs meter to do damage, have to charge with him, which can be a hinderance at times, doesn’t have many ways of getting momentum back unless the opponent slips up.

Low:

Freeman-buff jumping normals, some moves have invicibility on start up, ok combobility, doesn’t do that much damage, has one useless super, an extremely useless break, hard to keep momentum, and hard to lock down properly with him.

Tizoc-great throw game, can do big damage off of one special, has a great air throw, pretty good ab’s, great st. a, TOP can crush in 3 hits with it, slow, no comboability, reliant on a hard throw game, hard to use, and takes lots of work to win.

This is my list, in my opinion, respect.

Well, the basic reason I tiered Jenet over Terry is that Jenet seems to be the new Japanese en vogue character. I’ve seen a hell of a lot more use of Jenet, and definitely more effective Jenet use. I simply figure there’s something to that. I know of Terry’s game and strong points, but other than his Cxxfeint barrages, which I don’t think are as easy to set up as people think, he’s just a bit straightforward and orthodox. Jenet has nutty mixup and options, enough that she seems to stifle straightforward tactics. That’s my perspective, anyway.

As for Rock, well, he’s got a ton of mixups himself, and is pretty dangerous, but he’s a little more grounded and predictable. I had him in the bottom half, though, and I don’t know of anyone below him I’d put ahead. I don’t see why you think that’s an endorsement, I guess. :sweat:

The whole counter hit “on” in training mode has a bug where if you link into certain normals you get the counter hit to happen. Reasons why some combovideos use that bug to do longer combos with the counter hit on in training mode. For example with Grant you can do: hit them with stand A, let it do counter hit then after they turn around hit them with dash in stand A, then d + B. The d + B causes another counter hit to happen while the combo count still continues. Other charactes have this method of doing infinite combos with the counter hit on, though they are not possible in actual matches. It’s just a bug thats been known in training mode for a long time, hope that helps.

No problem, homey.

For me Rock has only good mix up and ch damage, that’s it … Slow firebal, bad Top move, also bad use of feints, break move is a throw, he needs to jump a lot, bad at gc’ing … Mmh I really think he is worse then Hotaru for example …, but that’s just my opinion so np. :slight_smile:

I don’t see how his special moves are punishable. His qcf+K and qcb+B have extremely low recovery. The same goes for his d+D in the air, and his qcfx2+B super. He has alot of good comboability, but it requires either you hit that qcf+D, or you do some feinting (using his close D). For example, Dong Hwan can do D(1 hit), feint, D(1 hit), feint, move up a bit, crouch B, crouch C, qcfx2+B. It’s a new combo I’ve been working on, although getting in two D’s seems somewhat hard.

**I don’t see how anyone could say that B.Jenet is NOT top tier. ** Whoever says she’s not is smoking some real hardcore crack shit. :lol: She has ridiculously damaging combos and her mix up game is reminiscent of Mag’s triangle jump shit. She pretty much has an easier time opening up an opponent’s guard than any other character in the game. She can mix up between c.LK and her overhead flying kick special so quickly it’s ridiculous. If she has you in the corner…you’re screwed…like seriously, that’s it.

But Terry can be as deadly in the corner, he has also extrem damage combos, plus if we talking about the c.B …, he has IMHO more options from it. Terry can go into Power Dunk (break) for being safe, combo into s.A, f,f+A etc. or add another c.B and buffer in this a Buster Wolf. So I would rank Jenet a bit below Terry. Anyway, both are nothing against a same playerlevel Kevin or a very skilled Gato.

Down + D and qcb k can be punished on block or hit by zero frame supers. Also, all the combos, take a lot of practice to pull off. I see the combo you’re trying to do though, it’s just like his brother, you’ll have to run with dong to connect em, which is a difficult task. Also, without meter, all he has is the qcf k attacks to start his combos, which can be a chore to get to hit on opponents at times.

Add that, it is very difficult to build meter with him, because he really doesn’t have a move to build meter quickly, and that if one doesn’t have meter, the next move he throws can be cr. ab’ed at times, and that’s why I feel the way I do.

I respect your opinion though, and respectfully disagree.

What can she do outside the corner? Not too much compared to the rest of the cast. She needs the corner to dominate a match, but if the opponent gets out of the corner and stays out, then she has a little bit more of a hard time. Also, her kicks can be jd’ed and guard canceled with a lil practice.

This is my opinions and thoughts and stuff though.

seriously Do we need 2 motw threads eventho this one is to discuss tiers you already have a motw thread

Maybe you are right with this opinion. But the first thing is, that all the posts would be lost or can you bring them into the other thread? Oh and second thing…, look at all the open Alpha 3 threads, even if there is a huge one already, were also char specific stuff is handeled quite nicely …^^

Well, all in all I think that what we should do by now is stop discussing tiers since it’s been established that :

  • the game engines is such that the game is balanced to a great extent
  • which leads to : it’s all about skill anyway
  • which leads to : any expert will rank his favourite first, which is anything but tiering

So Garou is one of the most balanced games out there, it’s about skill and no there’s no and will be no definite tier list.

Kevin is definitely tops, but i’ve always thought Jenet was crazy good. It’s definitely a toss-up between her and Terry for me, but I’d say they’re both at least a tiny bit better than Jae.
The biggest issue when facing Jenet is backdash into d+K. It’s crazy good. Invincibility into safe on block. On whiff you get a sweet throw mixup.

Also, put your romantic notions of a tier list aside. A tier list is a technical definition, it has nothing to do with skill, it has to do with their theoretical potential usually defined by how well the match up against all other characters when used at their best. It’s small talk, but it leads to interesting debates and often provable challenges. We all like talking about games, and most of us here didn’t get good by being slaves to tiers. We understand skill, we know Garou is awesomely balanced, but you cannot deny the fact that, when skill is set aside, some characters are gonna have ta work a lot harder.

tier thread and garou thread merged =]

You take the “a lot” off and I agree : any “top-tier” chara with only a decent player will get raped by my bird though I’ve lost most of my edge… and the Big Bird is supposed to be bottom (and no I’m not stupidly boasting : it’s just that I still control my range well enough to manage.)

Big Bird is pretty damn dominant if you know how to use him right. Most people just depend on his grabs, so they get raped all the time. Damn you for living in France.

Okay guys, I cant break with Marco at all, any tips on how to do it? Im using a ps2 controller for my computer as well.

Practice is the best answer, but to help you out on things you should know about his DP move. Its a lot easier to break it when its blocked or if you hit them with it, the timing changes on it if your doing it freely without touching them. His break is pretty quick though and you usually have to hit AB right when it hits or right when he speaks to say the DP move. It’s all practice like I said at first so just practice it. On the PS2 pad it isn’t that hard just get the feel of it and you should be fine. Take care.

Fuck tiers first of all.

Second, I am really really having problems with my Gato. Someone give me some pointers on how to get better with him.

9999
Compared to other characters say Dong, Kevin and Kain, his is a bit late. But compared to say Jenet’s qcf+HK it’s sooner. Somewhere’s like qcf+HK with Hoku. Like Nocturnal said it’s right when it hits.