OK I was at the Wiki recently and did some work on Rock & Tizoc, give them a look & correct if neccessary! w00t
Just put some Hotaru stuff on the Wiki.
If you’re comparing to the CPU Grant, remember that CPU Grant is much worse than a player’s Grant. CPU Grant has major invulnerability in his dragon punch that human’s don’t have, and that severley changes his game. You don’t see human dp’ing your dive kicks like you see the CPU doing.
Actually it’s people Grant, no bother with the CPU here. I guess I feel that every thing he does has crazy priority and isn’t punishable. The only thing I’ve found to work is to play keep away when he wants to abuse his dive kick and use c.A+B to beat his dash attack. I know I need to change my style a bit, but I hate how much he controls the pace of the matches.
But you mention that my dive kick can beat his dp? I’ll check that out.
Your help is truly appreciated. Maybe next time I’ll post some me vs grant matches if I get any and post 'em up here for critique.
Thanks, heroes!
I seem to remember them trading or Dong winning if they meet in the air, and Grant losing if he is on the ground (unlike the CPU which will do a brake’d dp that wins clean.) Just an impression. His main answer to Dong’s dive kicks should be to block, reversal kick super when the dive kick hits high on the sprite.
If he has TOP at the beginning like he should, and yours is in the middle, the first round should be a fairly easy win; go apeshit on him immediately and get him out of TOP asap. Without meter, he doesn’t have a reliable anti-air. Once you knock him out of TOP, you have control of the round and can run away all day. If he gets in and is pressuring you, relax. His offensive is not quite as nasty as it looks. If he does an A+B attack, let it hit and do a qcfx3 super. Look for opportunities to B super when he does dive kick shenanigans, and try to bait out his punch super by jumping and JD’ing it (its a damn slow super so can be JD’ed on reaction).
Thanks dude! So qcfx2+B as an anti air? I know what you mean about his supers, I’m not afraid to jump in because of it, its just they seem to easily link a jab into his multi hit super on me all the time. And he builds meter fast by abusing dive kick and dash attack.
Now bait his overhead to instant super? I like it!! That’s some dudley corkscrew strats right there!
I’m also a bit untraditional in that I like my TOP at the beginning. I know most Dong’s have it in the middle, but…
Also what would you define apes**t as against Grant? I can’t ever seem to pin him down because of his dash attack.
Your advice has helped me a ton already, thanks!!
Best advice agains’t Grant is learn to JD all hits special moves and supers, his dash attack is pretty simple to JD. It all depends on the player though and it leaves Grant wide open when you JD it. Grant does have other anti air options: such as his dash attack which will usually trades with everything, d + AB, TOP attack, stand C/D and even qcb + A/C. Also with Grants overheard A+B, watch out cause they might cancel it into his dive kick also. Also it’s not a good idea to run from Grant as he can catch up to most of the characters pretty fast. I would say Grant is the anti turtle and runaway character, I know cause of Magician and Giby. Though I never run away or turtle, I prefer to predict and rush when possible. Take care.
Whoops, spent a little time in training mode. Dong’s kick super against Grant’s dive kick is a bad idea for Dong in general. Can work, but not anywhere near reliable enough. Forget I said anything. At looks like blocking then dp’ing is the way to go.
Against the D bullrush (the long distance one), you pretty much have to JD to be able to retaliate. Even a reversal hidden super (qcfx3+C) isn’t fast enough; that D bull rush is totally safe for Grant on block. A dp+P or hidden super beats it cold head on, but takes some balls to rely on because mistimed or bad input and you get counter hit for major pain, especially in the corner. My recommendation would be to go into training mode (I really aught to make a ‘how to use the PS2 training mode’ page on the wiki) and set your opponent to do a D bull rush, and hold down back while doing the rush so he blocks ASAP, short pause blocking, repeat. Mix up the delay between bullrushes so you don’t get suckered into a rythm. THen, practice JD’ed the bullrush on reaction. The easiest to do is to do the blocking motion as a qcb. If you JD, hit B and you’ll guard cancel into a qcb+B, which does connect (but leaves you open for a kick super from in recovery.) as long as the bull rush doesn’t cross up, in which case you do a flying overhead away from Grant. Even better would be to practice guard canceling into a dp+P. I know these are rough, but its the only option if you don’t want to risk trying to beat it with a dp+P.
Seriously, ESPECIALLY against Grant, put TOP in the middle. When someone gets knocked into TOP, theres a flash and pause in the game that when it says ‘TOP IN’. This meses up the timing of some thing, especially links. Most everything of Grant’s is a link. I can’t count the number of times I would be doing a c.A, the screen would flash ‘TOP IN’, and I’d miss the link to kick super. Not fun. Use it to your advantage. Plus, you’re going to take a little bit of damage trying to knock Grant out of his TOP. Knocking him out of his TOP is your goal #1, no matter how much damage you take, knock him out as fast as possible. Rushdown until it happened or you lose. Once he’s out of TOP, you are back in control, especially if you are in TOP, even with less life.
A ton of Grant’s moves are risky, with major recovery time. Spend time in practice mode figuring out how to retaliate to different ones, including c.D, f,b,f+A, and qcb+P.
Worked for like 2-3 hours at the Wiki.
Dong’s combo section needs A LOT of work/tidying up to do.
Edited Kevin section of wiki. If something is hard to understand or if I screwed up something, help out. Oh, and Akutabi, you gotta mention the auto guard crush of full charge D Raimei Dan. Man, what a presentation you got. Ill try to tidy up Kevins to somethin like that in the next few days.
Looking to put together the biggest online Garou tournament ever
It’d be great for everyone to support this one. We’d love to have 64 players and we’ll need everyone to do it.
I’ve been looking for some Kushnood Butt/Marco stuff, if any of you could point me in the right direction…
I tried searching this thread to find random tid bits. I’ll search again and delete this post if I cant find it.
What exactly did you need help on with him? Just type up what you need to know and I’ll help you out. Take care.
Quick Butt stuff-
Far Standing D is Kara-cancelable, good for increasing the range of his :qcf:+:snkb:.
:r:+:snka: is an overhead & can be linked to his :qcf::qcf::qcf:+:snkc: super.
Good damaging corner combo (no TOP)-
Jumping :snkd:–>Standing :snkd:–>:dp:+:snka:, Break–>:qcf:+:snkb:–>:qcf::qcf:+:k:
I didn’t know that. But I never use qcf+B anyway.
f+A links to practically everything. For some reason I saw no f+A combos in the wiki, and included Marco’s f+A c.C dp+C (break) qcf+C bread and butter combo.
old and well known
ah! This is what I was looking for, basic Butt stuff and combos, I’m new to garou, so I didn’t know any of his combos. Thanks Akutabi.
EDIT: Also, it seems I’m always sitting on alot of meter, when and how should I use his supers?
Marcos main gam is mixing it up between low jump D, f + A or hitting them with down + B. Also his throw game is really good as well for mixups since most people are usually awaiting the down + B or f + A, not to mention you can Kara cancel his f + A into his DP + A/C then break it with A+B. Great for tricking the opponent when they see his f + A animation incase they try countering with d + AB or their own DP anti air type move. Learn Marcos DP + A/C Break so you have them down good, if you mess them up its a free combo usually on you. As far as his meter game goes, use it when you have a opening for a combo. Do them either after his DP + A/C breaks or f + A as well. Even after his d + B you can do his qcfX2 + B super mid screen. Have to do it pretty quick, but he mainly uses it for combo enders. Marco also has a great TOP attack great for backdashes in the corner and a great wake up move as well. It’s pretty somewhat tricky to JD it correctly as you wake up but they can block it as well. If they end up blocking it then your pretty much screwed afterwards since the recovery on it isn’t that great at all. Just use it when you think they will try to do something on wake up or use it as a combo finisher/extender.
Here are some combos that I will add to the wiki if they aren’t already:
(Mid screen) Hold down C, crossup D, land, stand D, DP + A into break (A+B), release C just as they are in level with Marco. (Crossup D doesn’t work on everyone some characters require different timings for it to hit right. On others it’s a lot easier to land it, just practice in pratice mode who you can crossup D with.)
(Corner) f + A, down + B, DP + C into break with (A+B), qcfX2 + B/C/D or qcfX3 + C, tap C 10 times before the super comes out to land the full charged super.
(With this combo it’s mainly for flash but it looks pretty neat when its done, you can also just do f + A, DP + A into break (A+B) then qcf + B then with either qcfx2 B/D or qcfx3 + C, tap C 10 times for full charged super.)
All add some counter hit combos also that are possible in real matches, hope this stuff helps you out.
Thanks alot for all the info! I owe you one.
Why do all f+A combos I see exclude the c.C? I figured f+A dp+C (break) is safer on block, since there’s a wee bit of time between a blocked f+A and c.C. But most people I play stayed blocking and I get my safe dp+C (break) anyway.
And If you need a poke string, I use c.A c.A sf.B, you can force a mixup usually here with c.A c.A f+A or c.A c.A c.D
I got a question about Butt’s qcfx3 super. I’ve been told that a level 3 does more damage and 2 more hits than level 4. Has anyone confirmed this?
level 4 does more damage than level 3, and level 3 has more hits than level 4.
I’ll edit this post with the hits and damage in a bit.
Edit -
Level 3 - 22 hits 55 damage
Level 4 - 12 hits 61 damage
Super was done on Terry.