They picked MCD for the role because he was the best man for the job, and for that script he was.
I’m not saying that D’onoforio hasn’t killed it, he has. He’s definitely the best Kingpin but MCD did a solid job with what he was given.
MCD not being as good as Netflix Kingpin has nothing to do with the fact that he was black, period.
(Sigh. Are we still somehow on the race thing? Honestly, I hope that if Marvel make a Fantastic Four movie, they make Sue and Johnny Asian.)
Mr. Duncan’s Kingpin wasn’t terrible, but, yeah, he was doing anything to save Daredevil from its many flaws, especially in the heavily edited version that released to theaters.
Accepting that doesn’t necessarily mean it has to be an indictment again Michael Clarke Duncan in anyway though. After all, Colin Ferrell is similarly an otherwise quite good actor and the version of Bullseye he had to play in that movie was terrible.
Either way, Kingpin being black in that movie affected literally nothing for better or for worse.
Please explain what I put in bold.
Also, how can Johnny and Sue be twins if Sue is explicitly adopted here? Not that they’ve ever been twins. I’m merely asking since it seems like an error by omission akin to what I frequently make.
Speaking of which, the underlined section contradicts itself, even if you’re being sarcastic.
I still don’t understand why he was changed to black. The fact that this was even a thing to begin with in this reboot just illustrates how terrible the creative direction was on inception.
(Sigh. Who is “he” in that sentence? Please be clear about things.)
If we’re talking about Kingpin becoming black in the Daredevil movie, then I vaguely remember part of it being his ability as an actor, which is frankly what should happen in a lot cases, but doesn’t since a role is far more likely to be literally “white-washed” than change the “race” the “other way” to “non-white”. [/quotation abuse]
If we’re talking about Johnny Storm becoming black in this latest abomination of a Fantastic Fuck-up movie, then this was because the original director supposedly wanted to get some message across about interracial adoption or…something. Also, it helps that he worked with Michael B. Jordan before and Michael B. Jordan is an at least decent actor and that Johnny being white has never really been important…ever just like with Kingpin.
Again, both of their characters becoming black or “non-white” had nothing to do with why both of their movies were bad, especially since race-lifting happens all the time the other way and the only time that people ever complained in recent memory was The Last Airbender movie, which was horrible for plenty of other reasons as well. (Well, that and DBZ Evolution and, technically, Cloud Atlas.)
My bad I was referring to Johnny. The reasons to change him sound very shitty and I’m glad this movie is bombing. Let’s just leave the races alone and focus on a faithful good adaptation of the FF4.
Off topic sorry but why does everyone bring up DB Evolution as an example of white washing? Goku isn’t Asian, he’s a fucking alien. And where does DB take place? Do they have talking dogs people and dinosaurs in Asia?
(Okay. I see SRKarcade. Thanks for the clarification.)
Are we really going to pretend that Goku doesn’t look Asian though? Like how Superman looks white (well, Jewish, technically)? Or are you going to try and pull my other leg too by saying that people wouldn’t totally get up in arms if you made Superman anything but a white guy (in a movie)?
Also, how does where DBZ takes place, if there even any real world equivalents (which there aren’t, of course) change the fact that Goku looks closer to a real life Asian than any other “race”? It’s not like Asians exist only in Asia after all.
Regardless, my point with regards to DBZ Evolution was that a) it was a shitty movie and b) Hollywood race-lifts all the time in “let’s make this person white, especially if they’re the protagonist” direction and no one in the majority tends to bat an eye or get up in arms, perhaps because it generally affects Asians way worse than any other “race” even if we play along with the Goku supposedly not looking Asian. For other examples beyond just The Last Airbender and Cloud Atlas, see also: 21, The King of Fighters, the live-action Tekken (?), etc.
Isn’t Johnny’s father Dr. Storm black in this movie? So what’s the big deal? He just had a taste of that jungle fever. Nothing wrong with that. For all we know Sue’s the one that’s adopted. Have not been following all the news and info like you guys, so maybe it’s the other way around.
Sue IS the one that’s adopted.
^Sue is the adopted one
The film did 2.7 mil on Thursday showings. Variety still thinks it will make the projected 40 mil+ opening weekend.
Honest question here, why Fox (or anyone besides marvel) deviating from the source is bad thing?
All the goddamn marvel movies do the same, The mandarin anyone? Whiplash? Ronan? Yondu?, etc, etc.
Lets not pretend that Marvel doesn’t like to do the same shit that you say to hate when it comes to fox, sony and warner.
My g, stop. You know thats not what this movie suffers from.
Fox has a helluva lot more misses than hits. That’s pretty obvious. That was a pretty retarded question.
Whiplash & Mandarin were (some would say) negatives in still enjoyable movies. Same with Yondu & Ronan.
The marvel movies have been so successful because they stay true to the idea and concepts of the source material. It isn’t a page by page adaptation but they capture the essence and core principles that inform their characters. It’s not surprising that fox and sony have made some of the worst comic book based movies and all of them feature very significant deviations from the source material.
Marvel changing Mandarin caused a lot of fury, and they needed to make a One Shot just to keep up the fact the real Mandarin is out there.
When Fox changes things, it’s minor stuff. Making Yondu control his arrow with whistles was a cool change from using an actual bow and arrow, especially after Hawkeye. Complaining about Yondu changes versus changing major things like Thing can change at will, Reed grew up with Doom as kids, or Sue/Johnny aren’t twins anymore, serves no actual purpose, especially when the issues people had with the first movies was that they deviated too much from the source material.
Indeed, but people like to cite those things as their problems with the those movies when the movies they enjoy do the same shit, and mind you, i mostly agree with many of you on how all the F4 movies suck or Daredevil (though M.C Duncan was one of the saving points of the movie), the 1st hulk, X-men 2 and 3, Wolverine Origins, and others.
But at this point i wonder if you are not simply being blind on what you really hate, that this movies suck but not necessarily because those “problems” and more because the execution of those elements.
Lets not pretend that Marvel has not fucked up, like with Iron man 2 and 3, outside 3 or 4 movies, the marvel universe has been more or less meh in general.
For me, only Hulk, Iron Man, Avengers, Winter Soldier and GotG have been amazing, the rest are quite meh.
My opinion is that Marvel has not fucked up greatly yet, but they have been doing the same as other companies, adapting the source material for what the general public could like.
Side note (this is to give some context on what i think about the comic book movies so far)
Of all the Spiderman movies, I think that only The Amazing Spiderman has been a great movie, too bad that they fucked up the sequel and we are not going to see more of it.
X-men so far has been meh, with only X-Men 2 (the Nightcrawler intro scene, thats it), First Class and DotFP being actually really good movies. I enjoyed Wolverine Immortal, but i wouldn’t say that it was more than good.
I love the Dark Knight Saga, and i think that Man of Steel was a good movie, not great, but certainly not bad, it has shit that i consider dumb, like pa kent dead and superman being reckless in his 1st fight on smallville, the fight on metropolis was not really a problem for me, and him killing zod is faithful to what he has done in comics in the past.
V for Vendetta and Watchmen are some my favorite too, they took liberties, but imo they stayed faithful to the spirit of the comics (though V comes more sympathetic on the movie than on the comic.)
Like i said, imo the real problem is about execution of those changes rather than the changes itself, and Yondu changes are more than just how he controls his arrows, his incarnation of the movie and his comic counterpart only share the name, nothing more.
Mind you, i love Movie Yondu, he was one of the best characters on the movie, imo.
Reason people are against adaptation for FF? That’s fairly easy. FF fans do not have a respectable core to deviate from. Good adaptations should come from changing something good to retell it in a way that makes it seem fresh on top of an old solid story. Fant4stic does not do this. It adapts because it HAS too. The old movies were pretty shittacular and FOX has to reinvent their franchise in an attempt to make it more profitable. They are remaking for the sake of business. Grim/Dark sells according to Batman, so that’s where they go with it even if it doesn’t belong. The Thing’s iconic catchphrase to played out? Too corny for the mood of the movie? How about a needlessly dark origin to something that didn’t need an origin. F4 cast all being pasty white dudes? Lets throw in some needless race difference to say we’re culturally sensitive.
You think the reason why this movie is bad is because it just deviated from the source? It’s bad because it’s complete shit.
They are remaking for the sake of business, sure but they are also remaking it in a way so bad because they are really bad in making comic book adaptations. It’s all the fault of bad writers, bad creativity, shit direction, and just shit everything. You and Hectacomb are smoking something.