Hey guys, there was a 3 vs 3 tournament this last weekend, it was fun shit, here’s the first part of the videos, check them out if you want to get a taste of the mexico city fgc:
I’m the Gief player that plays from 1:39:20 onwards, I beat a newbie Dudley, a Guile player that has been playing for close to a year and who’s starting to cause problems to everyone around here, he’s also like 17 or 18 years old so he’ll be really strong soon, and get beaten in close matches by a Guile player that is close to my level right now, but who’s really good and has much more experience than me.
I think you played pretty well for the most part. You just lost your patience on the last Guile. Especially after he threw you into the corner. He got you kind of flustered so you started making some bad decisions. I see a lot of Guiles looking for that back throw once they start to feel cornered. Either that or try to get you with a random air throw. I start trying to look out for those if I notice they have a habit of doing it. They are taking a lot of risk getting up that close to you.
Going for a read on a backdash is fine every now and then but just throwing them out randomly, big no no. When you play against people that will punish you for 1/2 your life from a blocked GH, you will learn real fast to stop doing it. It might also be from playing online that’s building the bad habits because it’s harder for people to punish you. To play gief well, you really have to work on your patience. You also missed a lot of easy punishes. Learn what is punishable on block how to punish for maximum damage.
Many, ALL of Gouken’s palms went unpunished with HP SPD.
Too many random EXGH, you have to do them on reaction to fireball. If not, its better to get hit or block them, then to have your EXGH blocked.
Failed to anti-air PPP Lariat on many occasions.
A few too many jumps which weren’t punished by the full extent of the law
You won the match, but that Gouken is a much better player
VS Vega
Too predictable with the tick SPD. And the ticks are bad, as they are 3+ hits. Stick to 1 or 2.
Learn some combos
VS Rose
Too predictable with the tick SPD. Counted 5/5 attempts. You gotta give your opponent more credit.
Learn the KKK Lariat timing to evade projectiles. Don’t usePPP Lariat. And even then, you have to use caution if you do KKK too close and against slow projectiles.
Please learn some combos. You basically did close to ZERO practical combos.
Please learn to block MORE. I did not see ONE block during the first round. I kid you not. It’s OK to block projectiles. The chip is insignificant.
Stop random Lariats. Stop random EXGH. Stop unsafe jumps. Rose did you a favour by not choosing Ultra 1. If she picks Ultra 1, you should be dead.
General Comments:
Learn some simple practical combos
In the neutral game, Stop anything random like Lariat/EXGH, unless your willing to make it safe with EX FADC back dash. Random is fine in the “guessing games” like after LPGH or EXGH, if you mix it up with the “other” options.
Need more patience, block more especially fireballs, mashing isn’t good.
Ticks are too predictable, and you don’t respect the opponent enough to, use other options apart from SPD.
I actually like using KKK Lariat as another normal vs Rose, Bison, and sometimes vs Guile once I get the timing down. It’s also good to deter players from autopiloting with heavy pokes.
It’s not something you do every single time but I think they are good in matchups where the worst punish you can eat is something meager (like vs Bison) or where you can deter important pokes like Rose’s st.HK, which changes the dynamic of the matchup.
OK, here goes. I wish I knew more about this match-up
I think U2 is better. Because it would be easier to land. But not guaranteed unless Guile jumps. U1’s only confirm is the LPGH under Guile’s neutral jump, and U1 after the forward dash if guile back dashes after EXGH (Perfect frame timing - no execution errors) or forward dash after SPD-LPGH/MPGH (more easier timing), and RFC. But RFC is too situational - you have to go with HP SPD or AS at times, does crappy damage when you have an opportunity via hit confirm. And meter is too valuable for reaction EXGH. Window is tight, but still doable after constant training. I think you listen for “Sonic Boom” and press PP.
@1:47:13 & 148:12 - The flash kick is possible because of gaps between cr.lk bread and butter combo. Players will have to mix it up, with different hit confirms, to keep opponent’s guessing. At the moment, I’m not sure which strings to use. But I imagine starting with the low cr.lk, then switching to cr.lp chains, would be a good option. Or maybe the normal bread and butter cr.lp xx crlp. st.lk. Or 100% cr.lp (linked and chained) would be the hardest to read.
@1:47:18 & 1:47:20 - Would be a good idea, to use some proactive o/s cr.lp xx LPGH/EXGH, when in range of Guile’s pokes, especially his spinning back fist. I’m not sure what beats what. Just have to cover his far HP, far MK, cr.mk etc.
@147:48 - Frequently Guile would jump forward, I believe a well timed, walk up LP SPD can grab his landing frames. Happened quite a few times. Can it be done reliably? I think so. Just have to look for it.
@147:58 - I’m not a fan of the jumping and waiting. Because of all of Guile’s good reactive options to counter the jump, like cr.HP, jumping attack or air throw. I prefer to commit with an early jumping MP or MK.
@1:48:00 - Don’t think that was an anti-air Lariat. But Guile baited it well. LP SPD would work, but too hard to confirm, in case Guile used any long range jump attack
@1:48:05 - The cr.lp should have combo-ed, not sure why, maybe wonky hitbox problems
@1:48:35 - Guile hits you out of the sky with a jumping HK. This is what I mean, by committing to an early jumping attack, instead of going for a delayed jumping attack.
@1:48:39 - Guile hits you with cr.HP. Again, use early jumping MK to beat that out.
OK, too lazy now to detail it.
When you got Guile to the corner, and double AS him. I think you would benefit from U2, as you were crossing him up. Plus all the times, you were in the air, U2 would have helped.
In the second match, you have to work in the cross-over empty jump U1 gamble at some point. It’s a respectable gamble. It’s really good to do it at 50%, as you could get 2 ultras per round.
Gotta stop those EXGH-EX FADC frame traps, that Guile was good enough to back dash those.
In Summary:
Gotta work on those reaction early jumping MK/MP, reaction EXGH - you did ZERO, more proactive cr.lp xx LPGH/EXGH when in range.
LPGH could whiff punish many of Guile’s pokes, need to test them.
To be fair, I probably can’t do any of this stuff So your well on your way Macho!
I wouldn’t rely on reactionary EXGH on Guile. It’s just too hard to react to a sonic boom. He recovers too fast. If you’re going to hit him with exgh through a sonic boom, it would have to be a prediction. I also prefer U1 in the matchup. To land U2, you’d have to make a guess/read. If you guess wrong however, you’re a sitting duck. You can use U1 for tick setups and if you guess wrong, usually, Guile is jumping away so you’re pretty safe from any follow up punishment attempts. You also can’t land U2 off of a focus crumple.
Thanks for the comments, just going to give some clarification on my ways to play, I will try to add the early jumping attacks to my gameplay.
About doing LP SPD to stop his jump forwards, problem is, he learned the range and stopped jumping when he was in range, doing a walkup SPD might be too slow since he backdashes as soon as he reaches the ground, I try to do it every now and then but I haven’t catched him in like 2 months.
And I agree with crapface on both accounts, it’s really tough to react to Sonic Boom, you’d be mostly reacting to anything and it would end up being a read, and I tried U2 for a long while but catching a flash kick is tough as hell and it’s only real use is against Guile trying to jump out of pressure, he mostly jumps back so getting to the corner isn’t bad for Gief, while U1 is good for punishing, gambles, reads, and red focus crumples. I have found more utility for it in the matchup since 2012.
And lastly, about the empty jump crossover 720, I completely agree that it’s a good gamble, problem is, no matter how much I deter this guy (the one I was playing) from jumping and doing flash kicks, he will continue to do so (it’s frankly kind of tiresome since I have to dumb down my mixups a lot). It’s a personal choice against him but it’s a tool I use in most other matchups.
Yeah. There’s many ways to gamble the U1 on Guile’s wakeup. Empty Jump, Arial feints like whiffed splash, tick knees. All worth a shot.
I always prefer U2, but not to catch flash kick. To gamble against jump or back dash after EXGH. I also think U2 is lethal in the corner, which is the aim of the match-up. Move Guile to the corner and keep him there. There was this amazing match, where Aquasilk U2 took on Dieminion.
It would be interesting to compare the risk and rewards of U1 to U2. You can always fly across the screen with U2, to reduce your penalty? I wonder what damage Guile, can get after back dash against U1.
The frame data says, you can EXGH sonic booms, but I’ll test it out.
Edit:
Yup, your right. I COULD NOT react to LP booms with EXGH. Looks impossible.
Just do meaty cr.LK’s. I think if you hold down-back when you do it, you’ll get the o-s block so if he does flash kick, you block. And if he jumps, he’ll get hit by cr.Lk and you can confirm into a combo.
This could only work for the first cr.lk, and to hit confirm, you have to commit to a second cr.lk.
I believe for the o/s block to work, you have to be in negative frames, in such a way, that the frame you input all your options on (DB block + cr.lk), is the same frame that flash kick’s active frames hit you. So, you have to be -3 frames. That’s why, I believe the o/s block + throw tech + AS after LPGH’s -2 on hit, would work well.
Edit: The o-s block works in safe meaties because Zangief is in negative frames.
Agree. Flash kick’s 4 frames of invincibility will pass through cr.lk’s active frame(s) and hit the recovery.
…
After the first cr.lk, there really is no o/s block. Your +1 on block, there is a 3 frame gap between each cr.lk. Guile just simply goes into straight into flash kick, without any standing or pre-jump delay (otherwise the second cr.lk may connect)
So your well on your way Macho!