Me too, this seems like this guy wanted to try to do what fanatiq did just at a lesser skill.
I could see that now on MVC2 you call assist with Super Armor, Storm player typhoon/Hailstorm rushes in and takes your power-up and now she has Super Armor .
most of the lower tier characters play just like higher tiers but worse.
it’s only limiting if you really really want to see different sprites
Well if the game was made like it was supposed to be in the eyes of the developers and such, then it wouldn’t be played the way it is now. The developers had a vision of the way they wanted it to be played, but they just got lazy and added some shitty safety measures that didn’t end up working well. I actually like the way Marvel 2 is played so I could give 2 shits but just don’t get your hopes up for 3.
its because hes not a marvel player.
I love the way marvel 2 is played also… and I’m keeping my hopes level headed. Setting to high expectations could just piss me off come E3 footage… but I’m also not going to start losing patience after < a week of sparse details. Let us at least see some in game footage before people start foaming at the mouth.
I don’t want capcom saying “it’s better to ask for forgiveness, than permission” and making some bastard child of the abomination that is tvc. We need to speak out and make sure that it we are heard at every stage of development. I think it is very important that all marvel players and capcom game players alike cry fro the hilltops and inform capcom that tvc is bad and we don’t want that game in any way shape or form putting its creepy claws of chaos on mvc3. Mvc3 has unlimited potential; tvc was epicly bad. Combining epicly bad with unlimited potential creates a new genre of chaos equal to the earthquake that hit haiti. A single petition can be ignored sometimes. Multiple users with the same message are much harder to ignore. Please those of you who are good at mvc2 and have played it for year, but have washed the awful taste of tvc from your mouths… And those of you who registered late but wish you could have been present for the 10 years of awesome engine exploitation and community development of mvc2… Those of you who have gaming blue balls because tvc got you started but just left you feeling empty inside as the game robbed you of an awesome experience as a fighting game. Post the following at the bottom of your posts. Sort of like a signature if you will.
Capcom please make mvc3 NOTHING like tvc. TvC is not doing well for you or for us, we know you can do better and we know you will.
With all due respect, I really can’t see a serious balance effort for MvC3. Its just not going to happen.
MvC2 had 56 characters. Each character had 3 assists. You made any possible team of 3. I’m not going to embarrass myself by trying to do the math just so someone else can correct me but that’s a whole fucking lot of matchups. Now then MvC3 i believe currently is talking about having 30 characters. Assuming they even take the TvC approach and make it teams of 2 with predetermined assists you’ve already got 4 more characters than TvC, and matchup possibilities go up exponentially with each character. If they stick to the classic MvC2 style of 3v3 with 3 to choose from then it’s even more. This is assuming they stop at 30 and go no higher, which is almost certainly not the case, and there’s a decent chance they’ll try to surpass MvC2’s mammoth roster.
Now then keeping all that in mind it’s pretty easy to see that just trying to do movelists for the MvC2 roster was pretty hectic. Massive general design issues aside(Large portions of the cast not having a way to deal with crouch blocking maybe.) there’s lots of glitches and strange decisions for individual moves, and in most cases it was these almost certainly unintentional decisions that had the biggest impact on the gameplay. AHVB and HSF alone are pretty insanely powerful supers with great properties, and when you start adding in glicthes it gets pretty random. Juggs makes it just past mid mostly because of the absurd damage a fairly simple glitch of his does, while others like jin a few niffty things but get almost no competitive play. MvC2 has a great scene, but it’s pretty damn lucky things worked out, and quite frankly had MvC2 not had all these glitches i’m not sure it would’ve been half as successful as it turned out to be.
Now i’m not saying they won’t try to learn from 2 and try to push things in a direction that keeps as many characters viable as possible while keeping the gameplay as fast paced, but there’s at least a somewhat decent chance 3 is going to have pretty serious balance issues, and an even more likely chance they won’t work out as well as 2 did. Hell i’m mildly surprised they decided to make another knowing that it’s going to be held up to such high standards and going to be extremely hard to repeat the same sort of success as its predecessor.
^yes but you would think they would try to move the game in the direction of the successful. TVC sucked and they are saying they will be taking things from the game. SF4 is a total different game. It would be like a nuclear physicist saying, while we moved in 1 direction with the atomic bomb and found unparalleled success, this risky, highly volatile, less impactful T.N.T. mixed with (something of a total different breed) this laughing gas oughta be the next stage in progression. Why would you want to immitate tvc in any way shape or form considering tvc sucks and isn’t selling well and will not be at Evo 2011, is not complex, looks awful and even when played at the highest level puts marvel players to sleep?
i actually would like to see different sprites. whats the point of 50 characters if most of them suck? just make it 8-10 and cut the crap.
thats not good game design imo. you may find it fun, but you are definately cutting out a group of players by telling them that they cant pick the team that they want because they all suck. i still pick my characters based on visuals, and the top characters were not appealing to me at all on a visual level.
it may seem strange cuz play to win, blah blah blah, but take sf4 rufus for example. hes a damned good character and has a fun playstyle, but i cant play a character who looks the way he does. many others feel the same way. so much that rufus is actually one of the least popular characters in the game despite him being a top 5 character who is arguably one of the easiest to play with
well, i understand what you mean. i wish i could use the other sprites sometimes too, especially because some of them are cool as hell. luckily, the way the top-tier characters play is something i enjoy enough that it doesn’t matter whether i can use characters that i only like aesthetically
Well for starters the chances of MvC3 getting a competitive scene again aren’t even remotely guaranteed. For all we know if they went balls to the wall full out MvC2 style we won’t be nearly as lucky and just wind up with some HnK nonsense. Fun, but completely broken.
Second define success. TvC isn’t a major money maker. Of course not. And yet it actually managed to get enough fans to even make it to the states when the general feeling was that that was never ever going to fucking happen.
As for it putting you to sleep, it’s all opinion in the end, and they’ve pretty much said they want 3 to be faster.
What they almost certainly won’t do is leave as much of 3 to chance as they did in 2. They can’t afford to. Everyone in the fighting game community knows MvC2 and damn near everyone is going to expect the same, even it’s extremely unlikely to happen. If they want to make a real effort and have the game out before the next millennium they’re going to have to make some serious changes, and seeing as how TvC may not be perfect, you can at least see what they were going for balance wise. Not taking cues from that would be extremely risky because there’s no way in hell they’ll get enough testing done to have an open system like MvC2 had and ensure a competitive level if they’re planning on the same roster.
TvC IS something like mvc2… so I imagine MvC3 will be SOMETHING like TvC… they are all versus games. Something “like” isn’t the same as cloning or taking away what marvel is “like”… Overall people need to shut the fuck up abut TvC already. I don’t really like it either… but since MvC3 is NOT being made with the same engine… maybe we should actually see some of the gameplay before posting non-sense threads like “mvc3 officially sucks” and the similar crap that even vets around here have been falling into…
if capcom has been anywhere on the internet… which they have… then they know marvel players overwhelmingly don’t want TvC inputs… and TvC players do… you people ranting the same rant in the hundredth thread… and all without a shred of actual confirmed info… need to stop. I love marvel 2… my idea of perfect marvel 3 is marvel 2 with 1080p… weaker characters buffed… and maybe a few new faces…
That’s not happening… so I’m swallowing my own personal fears and waiting… and hoping for the best… WHILE STILL SHARING INPUT… omfg… is that so hard?
Btw… that engine thing is a big reason 99% of you are trolling on pure speculation that is actually not all that likely even. From a simple perspective of money… spending 3 years making a brand new engine for a game… and then making it very similar to one you already made (TvC) is a waste of time and money… if that was what they intended… they could have ported the engine and probably released mvc3 already.
I actually read what the op had to say, and it wasn’t too bad. He may not be a marvel pro, but he knows the things that would balance out marvel more. And add even more characters. I want close to a 100 characters, all badass and broken as hell.
The OP mentioned beams vs projectiles but even if they could fix the projectile vs projectile imbalance between the two side in MVC3 that would be nice since even marvel’s projectiles are better than capcom’s.
Most capcom characters have projectiles that travel in a straight line, trades with another projectile, and do damgae when they hit but nothing else. Ken, ryu, akuma, guile, charlie, sakura, chun li, dan, Dhalsim, morrigan, bb hood,
The newer characters are slightly better but they were made for vs games as their first fighting game, Strider, Tron, captain commando, ruby heart.
Most Marvel projectiles have a secondary property that make them more likely to hit or lead to better followup after hit or control more space.
Capture - Spider man, thanos, cable, blackheart
Aimable - Sentinel, silver samurai
indestructable - Storm, doom, hulk,
Multiple projectile - Doom, Sabretooth, sentinel
Its not as bad as beams vs projectiles but its still a balancing issue.
peopel talking about how mvc2 only had 10 playable characters, so they never bothered playing the game. that makes no sense because that guy who just beat on a perfect with msp did so because he is better than u. when its scrub level of play a team like msp would be the least of your worries. i remember when i just started teams like megaman, doom and BH were too annoying. thanos and anyone. rogue throw assist and ironman Proton cannon, jill rushdown. those are just a few of the things that gave me some trouble and i was playing MSP. my point low tier characters are not as useless as you would think and why does it matter to you who the other person is playing?
Top tier seems to be mistaken for S-tier often it seems…
TVC style art is pretty cool, i dont mind it catching on. If you want cartoon and 3d i guess they might as well start the trend for new fighting games. Instead of making them known as that one game that looked weird.
I always wished mvc2 had random select. 56 characters and you wanna play crazy matches, but random picking on your own is still you picking them on some subconscious level. Random would force you to adapt and open your mind to tactics u would have never seen before. Atleast i think so anyways…
mvc2 is awesome, looking forward to mvc3
This game seriously makes MUGEN look balanced and I’m glad most of it is being foregone in favor of a new system
you have a partial point because they are better than i am, and i have no problem admitting that. but if i should want to evolve past scrub level, i should be able to do so with a reasonable selection of characters. i dont want to have to learn how to play the same teams/characters as everyone else just because the team i want are going to limit me terribly. i should be able to pick who i want and still be reasonably competitive