Fixing major holes in my play

Classic Fighting Games SSF2T: HD Remix
1

Thanks in advance

First off, just recently have I gotten into street fighter to learn the depths of the game. I enjoy doing research on games, reading forums and using methodical approaches to fix holes in my game… some obvious, some not so much. I play Cammy, Chun and Ken mostly. I do best with Chun, but I enjoy cammy the most… DP just beats out everything she has when i play as her.

FYI: most of the people I play with are not good enough to consistently reverse moves on the first frame, piano method, or in general be incredibly tight with their timing. We can assume they are for good practice, and they are close, but not 100% in this regard.

So hopefully you guys have some good advice or recommendations for why some things really frustrate me.

1) Blocking high on jump-ins.

This is a simple concept. They jump and do an attack, its gotta be an overhead. I understand it, I know it, but when they jump in a critical moment and i’m not equipped with a character I feel has a good AA for me (ken, cammy I am ok with, Chun not so much) If I am being pressured my first instinct is to block low and i get myself in trouble constantly. Chun’s best AA that I have found is standing RH, but the timing needs to be good and it comes out slower than I would like. Maybe standing Fierce?

Example: Guile throwing out Jab sonic booms and then jumping in with them.
Example 2: Any chun li player that jumps all over the place with her high priority MK

How can I train myself to not go into the crouching block?

2) Punishing people that whiff moves.

So I’m pretty good at reading people, at least the low to mid level players I come across online. I can bait them to throwing out DP’s, doing moves I know are coming and can dodge or block… but I cannot capitalize on punishing them. Now I am not speaking about opening up a combo or what have you (because that would just be a matter of knowing what moves link and their pushback range etc), I simply meaning putting myself in a position to get a strike or a grab in on them.

Example: Doing neutral jump over Ken’s Fireball, he whiffs Strong DP.
Example2: Blocking any cross screen charge move that doesn’t push us apart (dictator, honda, blanka, etc)

I feel that part of my problem is I overestimate the hit frames of a move and don’t move quick enough when it becomes the recovery portion. For things like Jab DP’s its really hard. My friend will just spam Jab DP’s and there’s not a ton I can do against it. I seem to miss time my low kicks (trip guard?) I have spent a good deal of time in training mode trying to gauge the vulnerabilities of certain moves, but things happen so fast and there is no way to slow things down to see where the openings are. I know they are there, i watch people do it… I just can’t find out what I can fix.

How can i teach myself better when moves are vulnerable, when I can go in for a grab or crouch MK combo etc. I often get into trouble by letting them come down from say a whiffed Strong DP and trying to hit them when they land… as another DP comes out and beats whatever i was doing.

3) Proper grab’s and teching throws.

So I have read that to tech a throw you do your throw command within 13? frames of theirs. That’s roughly 1/6th of a second, not a big window, but w/e. it can be done.

Now the question is… this requires the input 1/6th of a second from when THEY input their throw? Meaning that really I will need to predict them throwing, or if we both go for a throw and I get beat out at least I will tech it. Any advice on this? Most of the people I typically play against aren’t big throwers. Much of the time they throw its because they happened to be pushing Fierce inside throw range and it just comes out, meaning its hard to predict when they would want it to come out. thoughts? I have gone into training with a friend and tried to figure out exactly how big this window was, but with them throwing me and me trying to tech off reaction (knowing they would be throwing) it wasn’t happening. Maybe I am trying to tech too soon?

While I have a long way to go before I am competitive with most people on SRK, I feel like my knowledge of the game exceeds 95% of the people I come across online. The gaps just are huge in my defense and anyone who is smart enough to see them and abuse them will literally shame me.

I look forward to any and all help and comments. I unfortunately don’t have many people into SF like I am, no one consistent to putz around with in training mode or in learning online matches… so I need to branch out here to try to improve. Feel free to friend me on XBL, I am around and playing SF2 or something else most nights of the week.

2

Sounds like you are instinctively trying to react to someone’s moves with one of your own and honestly, sometimes its better just to block and wait for a better opportunity to do something. It isn’t 100% necessary to try and punish / AA every move that the opponent does. I mean its not like the guy whiffing jab DPs at max range is that much of a threat, but when you throw out a sweep and get hit by the next one that’s you being impatient. Wait until he whiffs one close-range and then punish, do this a few times and they should stop that nonsense.

Teching throws is just getting used to playing the game, the more you play the more you recognize obvious throw set-ups and you should be able to tech most of them.

imo.

3

well to your point. Assuming I know when a throw is coming… to tech I input my throw 1/6th of a second after they input theirs? not like when i go into the air or anything correct?

Also, I realize that some things are just too hard to punish, the window for opportunity is tiny. Its just frustrating when someone that doesn’t know better will whiff a huge Fierce DP and I get zero damage in on them for it. That’s def a huge lack of something on my end.

4

If you see yourself being thrown and you haven’t already put in the input for a throw, you ain’t techin’ shit. If you are in the air, your ass is getting thrown for full damage.

Well, when people whiff obviously punishable moves and you can’t punish them you should honestly be able to punish them with something. At first, while you are getting used to it, I would punish with something simple instead of trying to unleash some epic combo. Just getting used to the timing and time-frame you have to punish different things will be more useful for now then trying and failing to do your character’s huge combo. With time, the rest will come.

imo.

5

well

That is what I am trying to do, but it feels to me like I am just not coming out of block soon enough.

Question, say a character whiffs a DP and they are falling back to the ground. Assuming I don’t do a move that hits them in the air… what are my options? IE how does that first frame when they land play out? Will a meaty normal always connect, if they time another invincible startup move on that first frame will it always go through? IE what happens if they do another DP on the very first frame after landing, even if my sweep kick has red hit frame over their now exposed hit box?

6

If they’re getting in really close, expect that they’re going to throw you, and attempt to throw them instead. Either you’ll beat them to the throw, or you’ll tech it. Of course, getting that feel for when the throw is coming is going to take some time and experience with the game; just one of those things that all the reading and advice in the world won’t do for you.

7

A whiffed strong or fierce DP has always been the classic “wide open” “hit me sign” opening in SF. The moment they land, they’re open to any combo you’re willing to dish out. Of course, the same guy telling you this has been thrown out of point-blank range combo attempts on Ken landing from a missed fierce DP.

Bottom line…timing…and practice. Don’t impose your own rules on the engine. Follow the rules of the engine. Practice applying what you know enough and it will become second nature.

While you’re at it, start off by simply either sweeping, throwing, or supering missed DP attempts. Get that timing down and then you’ll be ready to combo them.

8

You want to get thrown around? I’ll add you as a friend.

9

This is way character dependent. I mean, its a difference between ken whiffing a jab DP, Sagat whiffing a Fierce DP, blocking a ryu Medium DP. Each has different properties. You may want to have a look at the frame data, or just play it “by feel” and learn through experience.

For instance, I don’t know the frame data, but I do know that Ken can seem to punish me when I try to attack against a jab DP whiffed on reaction. When I see it come out, if I try to punish it, I pretty much always get hit. So what I do is not try to punish it, but rather hope he does the second one, in which case my reaction time is faster (because I’m expecting it) and I can punish it in the air. I wouldn’t try to do a ground combo still, because I’ve had no luck in my experience of pulling it off.

Same with Kens Super, the last uppercut seems impossible to punish when he hits the ground, and the last arc of the uppercut makes it hard to hit him (moves come out the wrong way as he crosses you up last second). So after eating a quick uppercut in this situation a few times, I learned to time my move to hit him out of the air. So I tend to play more by “feel” than hard numbers.

10

Right, that makes sense. I would assume most general principles of LP MP FP in increasing vulnerability would be true for things like DP’s and cannon drills and the like. I suppose I was under the assumption that most things that “feel” more vulnerable probably are.

What brings this whole thing on beyond just learning how to play based on past experience and instinct is moves where I appear to have no tangible way to break the string UNLESS I can get into these small openings and punish.

I will use another Ken example simply because the guy I play against often uses ken almost exclusively. Some of these surely sound like very noob things on my behalf and believe me I realize this.

At certain points when I am crouch blocking he will do say an MK whirlwind kick. It goes over me, he lands, does another one back over me. He never tries to land and cross me up like a more experience player probably would, but it’s still hard to find an opening simply because it goes beyond the range of my cr.mk. I suppose i could standing block the kicks and try to punish him when he lands, but as i’ve shown in this thread my confidence in punishing block/whiffed moves is low. It also seems if i try to wait until he lands and step quickly towards him into grab range or just into cr.mk range his kick hits low on startup and I can’t usually sneak it in.

I’m trying not to get into specific normal vs normal priority discussions and character matchups because I realize this is about frame data and feel, but what I am driving at is the correct thought process I should be going through to try and break these all out offensive strings on me. If he takes a break and is stationary on the ground I am good at mixing up moves and getting in on him, but when pressured my knowledge of outs falls flat.

11

Hurricane kicks can’t beat projectiles (unless it’s the ol’ Sonic Boom) or DPs, so you can whip out one of those after a HK flies over you or before it reaches you. Also, normal move uppercuts (e.g. Ken’s crouching fierce) have always easily countered HKs when Ryu or Ken is flying directly in front of you or upon crossing you up.

Play around with your normals. Some normals stuff others and some normals are perfect for taking out special moves. Always remember that if they put you in block stun, you have the advantage of doing reversal special moves right before you come out of block stun. If you come out of block stun, that’s an opportunity to stick something out.

And, oh yeah…don’t sit there unless you have a plan. :slight_smile:

12

About tech throwing: Just try to throw people whenever they are too close to you. If you’re always trying to throw people then teching will become second nature. I also like to hold either forward or back and mash on a throw button when I know it’s too late to counter throw and I just want to tech out.

13

Protips:

  1. Pick Honda
  2. Hold db
  3. ???
  4. Profit

imo.

14

Can you please try rapid improvemnt parts 1 and 2:
1: http://tea-hawk.blogspot.com/2008/12/rapid-improvement-part-1.html
2: http://tea-hawk.blogspot.com/2008/12/rapid-improvement-part-2.html

I’m trying to write guides aimed specifically at players like you to help them improve. I’d appreciate it if you could try those guides out and let me know your feedback – did it help? Was it clear? etc…

15

nice zass! I’m a bit beyond these beginner “strats” but I can see how it would be really helpful to any newbs. I like your example about non-capitalization!

16

I’d be very willing to try those out… if someone would like to play the other side against me. Unfortunately I can’t program the computer to do what i want!

Also, thanks much to everyone who has contributed so far, I appreciate the advice and apologize if i sound like I am asking the same questions over and over again, i’m doing my best to clarify your comments into things I can methodically work on

also, in regards to the second of the little guide things, my mind definitely stores special moves as one move instead of a set of moves I need to do. So in that sense I am pretty consistent. I finally figured i was decently competent at actively using the right move quickly when i was jab dp’ing vega’s off the wall stab move on reaction. Its probably the one of the strong parts of my game… even if I end up whiffing the moves I meant to do. :smiley: The only exception would be cammy’s cannon drill… for whatever reason I find that my spike comes out a lot when I am doing that, even thought I have zero problems on shotos’s who use the exact same motions for FB/DP. odd.

17

Teching a throw is closer to 1/5th than 1/6th. It’s really 13/60ths.

I prefer to attempt to reverse throws, then you get the tech anyway if you were remotely close. Even better is reversing the initial hit if you see a tic-throw coming.

Teching grabs is similiar in that you must react within the same window of time, only you wiggle the joystick (and also mash, but joystick is more important) diagonally to take fewer hits.

18

Good shit, man! :tup: