The people who care about 8 frames of input lag have already bought this game. No casual video gamer even knows what the hell you’re talking about.
This game flopped at launch because it was half-finished. They need to release a Complete Season 1 edition as a new reissue. That’s the only way they’re gonna get sales back up. Everything else is window dressing for the captive audience (us!) that they already have.
Then the answer to that is release SFV: Round 2 ahead of Tekken 7. And even then, I don’t think Tekken has that kind of name brand power anymore. And the funny thing is Akuma being in Tekken 7 actually works in Street Fighter’s favor. Because people who played T7 will get hype when Akuma’s announced for SFV lol.
The UI needs a revamp. The menus, health bars and even the text in character names feels like Capcom just went with default font and menus. Look at SF4 and SFxTekken. Thats some great looking menus with work behind them
Capcom clearly has no UX team because everything about the design screams that it was done by developers/engineers and not people who are in UX.
I, for one, like the battle UI for its simplicity. SFIV’s and SFxT’s UIs are fucking obnoxious, overloaded, too flashy, and consist of like a dozen different fonts
It absolutely effects sales negatively. 1000%.
It’s not something you can easily measure. You can’t really ask gamers in a focus group as most of them don’t know what a frame is.
It’s hard to measure, it’s like this. Call of Duty, a HUGE reason for the games success, a HUGE reason why it stood out from other shooters is because of it’s dedicated 60FPS. It stands out amongst the pack of other FPS that were almost all 30FPS. And it seemed game companies just couldn’t figure this out. They would copy everything about Call of Duty except the framerate. They thought maybe it was iron sights (lol) maybe it was this or that, to no avail. Finally Battlefield goes 60FPS and what do you know it’s a contender to Call of Dookies monopoly. Hey who’d have thought right.
And again, 99% of Call of Dookies play base doesn’t even know what a frame per second is, but you ask them why the game is better “it feels better” “it’s faster, more responsive”.
I mean this isn’t rocket science. You can rewind the clocks to the days of Street Fighter 2 and why Turbo Hyper Fighting was created. Speed/responsiveness >> lag, slowness. Period.
Street Fighter V comes out, influential people are jazzed as hell, pick up the game and are like “eww yuck what’s going on here, game doesn’t play well, hype killed wtf” and it spreads. To this day I don’t know how people play this game, the gameplay is HORRIBLE, and it’s all because of lag. There’s no other reason. I think the characters are awesome, I think the graphics are awesome, I think the new game engine and ideas are awesome. To a lesser extent and I think people are finally talking about it, the bad hitboxes, but yeah it’s the lag. Capcom trying to figure out why SFV is so unpopular…
ITS THE LAG, STUPID.
What’s more disappointing is that both Valle and Daigo are treating this as less of an issue than it actually is. It’s huge imo and it’s ridiculous that nothing has been done. The combo timing excuse they’ve come up with is BS as they’ve made combos/links easier than ever. i wonder what capcom is going to do come patch time. How will online play suffer with the artificial delay gone? Are they currently planning for that and in turn tuning online play to be better?
Because it’s not the big deal you (generic) believe it to be.
Could be better? Sure.
Is it unplayable omg can’t do anything? No.
You can either bitch about it in every forum and every post you type, or you can actually play the game and git gud
People played happily SF4 for years which had about the same amount on lag on some consoles while requiring much faster reactions. Nobody seems to give a shit about the 7f of lag of KOF14 either.
The 2-3f of difference is nothing comparable to the difference between 30 and 60fps. It can only be felt in specific situations and mostly by pros who have been used for a long time to a smaller amount of lag. For the casuals it makes zero difference because they won’t ever find themselves in situations where they need to react fast anyway.
When you read SF5 user reviews, almost nobody says the game “feels” bad or slow except very few hardcore FG players. The main complaints are about the lack of arcade mode and of SP content, the small roster, the rollback netcode and the online features that aren’t working correctly. “Influential people” don’t give a shit about 80% of these and their statements were only taken by some casuals as an excuse to show that the game was not “right” in some respect. If Eventscrubs didn’t make any article about the 8f of lag none of them would’ve been aware of that.
Casuals dont even know what the lag is. Its not something thats visually noticeable like 60 FPS to 30 FPS. Thats something you can visually eye even if you can’t feel it. Aka casuals can make an opinion on it.
It will make online play better.
I can’t believe they would defend it, I think they’re too afraid to bite the hand that feeds but, they’re Daigo and Valle, they’re bullet proof… meanwhile it takes guys like Snake Eyes to stand up, and I’m proud of him but I’m ashamed of others not coming in to back them up. They’re just in some disconnected bubble IDK.
Again, I made this point crystal clear you don’t read. They don’t know what lag or a frame per second is, but everyone feels it dude.
I don’t understand shit about cars but when I press the brakes and there’s a delay I know that’s a shitty car lol.
Again, I made this point crystal clear. They don’t know what lag or a frame per second is, but everyone feels it dude.
I don’t understand shit about cars but when I press the brakes and there’s a delay I know that’s a shitty car lol.
Those are also reasons. Those are bigger reasons for the low sales actually, much bigger, absolutely, but to act like the lag has no impact on hype or sales or player base, especially hardcore player base, is dumb.
Game “feel”, whatever you want to call it, just because most people can’t articulate it… you’re relying on retards writing reviews online. Who cares what they say.
Also I disagree. 60FPS vs. 30 is huge in FPS, but in fighting games, they are all 60FPS, that’s standard, input delay is a HUGE deal in Fighters… or at least it used to, back when people had standards.
Most people have simply lost the plot or moved on and don’t play games anymore.
No, you DON’T feel it. Unless you’ve been exposed for a long time to a game with way less lag, you DON’T feel it.
Again, I played SF4 for quite some time, and since it was the first game I tried to play seriously I thought it was normal to be like that. I couldn’t even understand why people complained about the input delay because I had nothing to compare it with. Then I started playing SF5 and Fightcade, and as soon as I went back to SF4 I realised how much input lag I was trying to cope with when I wanted to play online…
It’s like when you live in a country with some brutal laws. You might think they’re bad but hey, you have no choice, so you just live with them. It’s only when you move to another country with more human laws that you become able to tell what was wrong in everything you had to endure before.
But anyways, I will agree it’s probably less of a reason for the low sales than other things, but it’s still a huge reason. With a Fighting Game, you have to please the hardcore base. They’re the ones generating hype, in the drivers seat influencing everyone else. It’s the same reason why Microsoft is losing so badly to Sony in the console business, they took hardcore gamers for granted but didn’t realize we’re unbiased and we’re smart, and if you fuck us we will bury you, and that’s exactly what happened.
Capcom did so much to serve hardcore community with the tournament integration aspects and putting an emphasis on balance… but this team, these chimps at dimps, I’ve just lost all confidence because they can’t get the simple things right, tight fast responsive gameplay and good hitboxes… fundamental shit, shit we used to take for granted…
Anyone who knows anything about fighting games, the hardcore community, shits on SFV. Even the few that force themselves to play it despite it’s problems. If the games input delay and hit boxes were fixed, oh my god, the game would have been huge, we’d still be riding the wave of hype. That would drive sales until the time comes when all the casual features are in place, which should be, now essentially, the holiday season 2016, and casuals would be buying the game in droves to see what all the hype is about and have all their stupid casual features and story modes and whatever. That aint happening, Capcom essentially failed on every single front and I don’t see them coming back. I don’t see an update, I see the game being abandoned and basically done for another 5-10 years like with SFIV…
Yes you do. You absolutely feel it. Everyone does. It’s 120ms. That’s a Yellow/Orange online connection. If you can’t tell a connection like that from a 50ms or less Green connection then there is something seriously wrong with you.
Idk why you act like gamers are retarded. Do you not remember the huge hoopla over SFIV where the PS3 version had ONE EXTRA FRAME OF LAG. The only reason that 8f isn’t a bigger issue, and it is a big issue, but the reason it’s not bigger, is because there’s nothing to compare it to.
And I have proof of this. Look at the PS4 version of Ultra when it first came out. People were furious. It was a joke with 8f of lag, and the negativity was so strong Capcom was forced to fix it and fix it quickly… that’s because people had the PC, 360 and PS3 versions to compare it to, they knew it didn’t feel right. With SFV, unless you’ve tweaked your PC to cut the lag in half, like SnakeEyes did, you don’t know what your missing. So, most gamers don’t know what they’re missing. And while they feel how bad the game plays, if they don’t know what a frame is, which most gamers don’t, they’ll just say "yeah the game doesn’t play good. It feels slow or something. " then they’ll go on and on about the other endless list of atrocious problems lol that are easier to articulate.
You’re overestimating the influence of the hardcore base on the casual player. Revelator and KOF14 indeed generate more hype amongst hardcore players, yet they sell less than SF5 and there’s no fucking way those games will gather a larger playerbase than SF5, ever.
There is no trickle-down economics here. Casuals and hardcore players buy fighting games for totally different reasons. The ones who will drop the game because of 8f of lag or lack of crazy mechanics have no influence on those that drop it because there’s no Akuma or Arcade mode. You can please the hardcore players by making the system more responsive and more sophisticated and yet have poor sales because of the lack of single player content that the casual wants. Do we really need to name all the great fighting games with amazing engines that still sold poorly, starting from 3S?
You totally proved my point, thanks.
I think Market Segmentation is the fancy term for it. Capcom need to pick who they’ve made the game for. The obscure characters implies a more hardcore audience, the 8f buffer points to people who are competitively interested, but inadequate. So…die hard fans that aren’t necessarily good?
Call of Duty has a compressed skills gap for the same reason - not all fans are good at the game.
With EVO and Street Fighter getting more mainstream attention, big studios putting out fighting games, the awkward merging of smash and the FGC, eSports blowing up in general, they know exactly what they’re doing - Street Fighter 5 is their Modern Warfare 2. Slower veterans, high level young blood and baby buffalos all in the same lobby, all at least getting a couple of combos out.
Not to my taste, but I still have faith that this game will level up as the players and the overall demographic matures. A freemium model like this affords you that adaptability.
Maybe when the people that just like the occasional fighting game dip out into the likes of Injustice 2, we’ll see the training wheels come off.
You’re confusing the difference between hardcore gamers influencing major stuff like SFV or the Xbox and PlayStation platforms vs. a marginalized, much smaller group of Hardcore Gamers IE people who like KOF, Metal Slug, JRPG’s…
When I say hardcore gamers maybe a better term would be, smart gamers. A guy who knows that the PS4 has 1.8TF of power and the Xbox One only has 1.3, who follow things very closely they’re the ones the average joes who don’t know anything look to. The people closest to it are the ones where all the hype starts, and spreads to everyone else. If you cross those people, you’ve killed the hype it’ll trinkle down to everyone else.
TLDR: I’m not talking about people who like SNK or know what Cannon Spike. And no, I’m telling you, if the hype is killed at the top, casuals will ignore the game because there’s no hype. Hype lives or dies off of the most hardcore base of fans, that’s what I mean, I didn’t mean hardcore gamers who like niche stuff like KOF or 2D shooters (like me).
Also yes those casual features are important absolutely, but if there’s no hype and it’s dead at the top, they won’t even buy the game you could have all the casual features in the world.
No fighting game ever got big sales because “OMG THE STORY MODE” Casual-hype. It’s hardcore hype driven, and Capcom knows this, but they put the cart before the horse. They did all these great community features and tournament tie ins, but forgot to deliver a fundamentally sound game.
SF5 is still the most successful game tournament wise with numbers that are way above anything SF4 ever reached. That’s it for the hardcore gamers’ hype.
This is no different from anything else. If a movie fails with critics and hardcore movie fans, that turd smell will eventually reach general audiences.
Now there are exceptions to the rule. Nerds can’t propel a turd no matter how hard they try, Mad Max being a great example, and nothing can stop Justin Beiber from selling 100,000,000,000 records digitally or whatever. But generally speaking… and with a fighting game, with this genre yeah if the base game sucks, if you piss off the hardcore crowd, forget it your hype is lost and nothing else will save it. It just so happened though that Capcom didn’t just fuck us over they fucked over the casual guys as well with a barebones featureless game. …
Street Fighter. A game with a very big hardcore fanbase and a very large general appeal. You have two groups to please. Capcom fucked them both over. This isn’t rocket science, really. And I guess we can argue semantics until we’re blue. How about we just petition Capcom to fix the game for us? Because AFAIK the casuals features are either in or coming soon, so, you know, let’s make an emphasis on fixing the game at a fundemental level.
Go play the PC version and do the V-Sync trick to cut the games input lag down by half. ** You. Will. Say. WOW.**
It’s night and day. And you mean to tell me casuals wouldn’t be able to tell that? Please. People aren’t stupid, casual gamers aren’t stupid or below you they just have different priorities in life and aren’t as into it as we are, but everyone can tell when you improve gameplay in a videogame. And yeah you’d turn it around potentially. Hey did you hear SFV is a lot better now. How is it better? It doesn’t matter go get it! Life is complex and simple, not either or, it’s both.
I have to agree with @OceanMachine how much a different game opens your eyes. I played Street Fighter IV for many years, both offline and online, and while my execution is far from best - not once have I ever question if the online was rollback or input delay, heck I didn’t even know that was a thing, and just kinda rolled with it
Then, ever since I bought SFV - I haven’t touched Ultra on PS4 for 7 months, until I recently tried playing again after being exposed to SFV’s gameplay. And I just can’t take it. For nearly 5 years I played SFIV with input delay, with 7 frames of input lag, on the worst version of the game - PS3, and I played just fine
But now? I can’t do anything in an online match. It’s like you press a button and the game reacts an eternity later, it felt very unresponsive
I remember the first time I met you at that place in Rockville and we played SF4, and I couldn’t do my moves. Like I couldn’t do basic BnB combos with Balrog. Then you told me about input lag. Then when I got home and used my normal TV I could do everything fine.
The thing is, my normal TV I had been playing on since launch which was probably 6-12 months prior to that, was BIG TIME laggy. I was playing on a 2004 Samsung DLP. Go google how much lag those TV’s have. And the thing is - I had no CLUE about input lag and was perfectly fine with it, in SF4 and every other game.
But after that and playing on non-laggy TV’s, going back to the laggy TV was a nightmare. That’s when I got an Evo monitor.
But to your point, I agree 100% that casuals don’t know what input lag is. And I don’t think they can “feel” it either, but if they do, they don’t care about it one bit because they are used to it because that’s just how the game is.