just miss the good ol kongo daze…lol
I’m not getting into mashing, but with Kongo on kicks you can’t do EX tatsu at all as a reactionary anti-air.
How does kongo on kicks benefit at all other then the old OS of EX kongo/EX flip on ambiguous crossups? I’d rather have EX tatsu available.
Two zone kongo is way different then Kongo being on kicks. They could have kept it two zones and moved it to punches.
YUP, for that sole reason alone, I never like kongo being mapped to kicks.
would you give it all back for OH dive?
The Kongo button remap was great in that it allowed us tatsu on reaction, but HORRIBLE in that to meet the new 3 button punch layout it received an unwarranted nerf. I thought for sure Capcom would take that opportunity to BUFF the move, not nerf it. Why they split it into 3 zones just because it had to be on 3 buttons makes no sense. Especially since it doesn’t work half the time anyways even if you use it properly.
I remember all the speculation around it before we knew it would be made shit… lp was low and mp was high like before, but then for fierce punch everyone had all kindsa crazy ideas: a throw reversal, unshatterable, same as EX but takes the damage, causes wall bounce, special cancellable, etc.Then it was revealed that it was just 3 zones and a resounding “okay.jpg” was heard across the Gouken forums.
If they HAVE to split it across 3 buttons, they should make lp/mp = low/high like before and then make fierce punch just hurt yourself. And if you ever feel like reliving AE days you press that button.
Don’t forget they also silent nerfed the damage.
Yeah, so they split it up, thus reducing its odds of working, lowered its damage, and broke the hitboxes… on a move that was already decidedly weak. I sometimes try to wrap my head around all that, thinking the minds at Capcom know something I don’t, but I just… I just dunno anymore.
As a side note, I’ve always wanted to discuss the philosopy of a parry in SFIV. It’s a pretty unique move in the game. One that doesn’t seem to fit the mechanics of SFIV’s “engine”. I mean, the very nature of parry – requiring input on your opponent’s part for it to even work in the first place, then being a guess for which hitbox, and then being able to be shattered on armor breaker and reversals – makes it a very risky move. Especially when in the same game SRK FADC is common place and covers so many bases defensively and offensively. Parry is a move that, in its current state, is a huge risk without equal reward. In high level fights, its only use IMO is as a crouch tech detterent… but if your opponent is doing … say mp o/s crouch tech then that fucks all that up.
Could someone explain to me why/how kongo and air parry would be gamebreaking if it couldn’t be shattered? I’m not looking to shoot anyone down. I just often think about that as a buff Gouken could receive and try to think of why it wouldn’t work or be fair. I’m not good at theory crafting though… or know other characters as well as I should to figure out why maybe they’d be boned if Gouken actually received that.
mashing ex tatsu is even better to mash than ultras, yet, sometimes, they’re usable. You shouldn’t mash everytime. Depending on who you’re fighting, not even 5%, but try blocking forever and you will be giving your opponent something you absolutely shouldn’t: confidence.
Mashing is an option, but it should be calculated risk:
Chance of landing x [(damage opportunity created) / (damage taken/opportunity created for the opponent)].
Dividing in 3 zones is not the nerf. The activation zone reduction is the real nerf.
Nope even though it’s very tempting. I’d give it all back if tatsu was srk though.
If he had that, I could give a damn about what other buff they gave him.
I don’t usually post on other boards outside of Dudley forum, but will it alright for an outsider to give their input on this matter?
So I took quick glimpse at this thread and I have to say there are a lot of reasonable suggestions here, but it could have been much better if it was organized in a more presentable way. Right now it’s no different than any other character request threads found on SRK & Capcom-Unity: just plain unorganized. If the Gouken forum wants their voice to be heard, then they need to make a community compiled Gouken change list. Honestly I doubt anyone would want to go through reading 10+ pages of requests, especially not Capcom. It would be nice if OP would put some more time to refining this thread, but that seems unlikely (not a personal attack) so it would be wiser if someone more dedicated takes the role. To give you an idea of what a request thread should look like, click the link in my signature to view balance change requests for Dudley. It doesn’t have to be as detailed as mine, but just make sure you get your message across.
There is already a compiled list of wanted changes.
The community contributed to it.
It’s on the first page of a different thread (updated)
I tried looking for it but i’m on a slow@ss laptop so i lost patience.
I was sure it was started by Reipin Pillage as he starts most threads, well constructed and updated on the 1st page with discussed requests.
But as of the 2 changes announcements we discussed in this thread, and now we have about 15 days. So there’s really no point to propose other changes.
Besides reading the 1st page of this thread, indicated people have altered their wants since the announcements, and could be getting greedy with future changes.
Hope you guys get what you want. Duds is shittier than Gouken and Dudley didn’t even get decent buffs.
Did you mean this thread?
Or this one?
If it’s the former then I’m not sure why there’s another duplicate thread for this , it just makes things hard and complicated for non-regulars trying to find out which one is the real/official/genuine request thread (so which one is it?). Also it doesn’t seem like the OP is no longer active (deleted account) therefore unable to update anything or provide any new information.
That aside, I think I wasn’t very clear when I mentioned the community compiled change list. What I mean by this is literally a list of reasonable buffs that the Gouken community (you guys) mostly agreed on and think will be the most beneficial to this character in the upcoming patch. That means none of the scattered and unorganized “I” want to see list of changes, but rather “we”. Again, take a quick glimpse at Dudley’s request thread. It must look simple, professional, organized, chapter-ed, explained, described, reasoned, etc. I repeat, no one including me, non-Gouken players, and Capcom would ever bother surfing through 10+ pages of suggestions, the most they’ll read is the first or last page (if it was Bullcat or kyo_anton discussing the balance then it might be different). That said, only the first or two posts should be reserved for the “voice of community” or “community compiled change list” preferably by someone who is dedicated, active, non-biased and is fairly well informed about this character (I personally recommend Reipin Pillage if he’s up to it).
And yes concerning about the patch being only 2 weeks away from release, you have a point. There really is no point in proposing other changes or make this thread any better. But keep in mind that v.2012 probably won’t be the last version of SF4, it’s well known that Capcom milk their franchise as long as possible until it completely dries out. They will keep updating every 6 months or yearly to keep the game “fresh”, like how some MMORPG companies purposely delays or doesn’t release their newest content until a set date time. It’s a common marketing strategy so there is still hope for Gouken in Ultra Super Fighter 4 v.2014 Turbo Edition.
Oh and by the way, Capcom doesn’t know shit. The developers only discover things after the community spends (hyperbole inc) 10s of thousands of man hours testing every single frame of every move. Unless there is literally some secret move they gave a character, there’s no way they would ever know more than the community would about a character’s potential. That means try your best to convince the developers into making the character you want with some false advertising. It’s funny because all other characters forum complain that most of their buffs were irrelevant and just made up crap, which is most of the time true. The developers make games, not play them professionally to a level they can compete in tournaments and know the game inside out. They only fix stuff that the SF4 community thinks it’s blatantly overpowered (e.g. viper’s ex-seismo).
Thanks, but I have a feeling that Dudley will get another batch of quality buffs regarding his neutral jump jabs. I wouldn’t mind if every other characters got buffs on their neutral jump jabs. Oh Capcom, giving Dudley the best buffs ever.
I hope you guys get a mega damage buff on Gouken’s Ultra 1.
He really needs that damage he lacks, get those chins while you can guys because apparently he’s a secret high tier character and might get nerfed in the next patch.
Edit: Just found Repin Pillage’s Gouken request thread on page 2.
Why do you guys have 3 different Gouken request threads.
Why.
Spoiler
why.
Because One was before the changes, the second was after the first round of changes and the last was after the second round of changes.
You could get a sense of direction after seeing the second changes.
Anyway posting stuff here doesn’t matter, they were looking at capcom unity for suggestions.
Also: Who cares. They don’t listen to us anyway.
Oh I see, but it still feels unorganized and cluttered to me. Not to sound like a dick but any dev blog change can be discussed here.
The rest of the wishlist for Gouken in the upcoming patch should have been kept in one thread, or at least try to categorize them by editing the titles to alpha/beta/etc for the sake of non-regulars if that’s what you guys are most comfortable with. In other words, unless it stands out from the rest of other character request threads, it won’t be read by anyone other than Gouken players (I’m just trying to help because Gouken was one of the characters I wanted to play next to Dudley).
I’ll stop with my suggestions now on how to improve your request threads since it might sound irritating to some by now. And it seems like most people here have given up on it, which isn’t a bad thing. Giving up is part of life and makes it a whole lot easier (no sarcasm intended).
And yes it’s true, I was completely let down after I saw the list of alpha/beta changes for Dudley. I’ve come to a conclusion that Capcom really doesn’t give a flying fuck about their fanbase unless it involves money (I already knew this eons of years ago but just pointing that out). But still the odds aren’t completely against us, if it’s not an absolute 0% then there’s still a chance and that’s what I’m hoping for (e.g. Seth Killian actively pushing for AE PC). I asked Gabe if I could have more hats in tf2 and he granted my wish, what a bro.
The best way to do this is to get someone who currently resides in Japan and speaks the language fluently to attend one of the locktests. Print out several hard copies of community compiled change list and hand it out to the staffs there while trying to make a strong impression. The Guy forum apparently has someone doing this exact thing I described and I heard they got some of their wishlists granted.
Or the best choice: be a true champion like me and pick a top tier in v.2012 if you want to start winning in tourneys.
When I said us, as in they don’t listen to us, I meant specifically the English speaking Shoryuken forums.
I’m sure they take feedback from Japanese sites and what not.
The new threads weren’t for discussing, as I said before they were for each changelog and our wishlist beforehand.
For example, before there was a changelog we had all these requests, some of which were granted (in a poor way I might add). They were mostly fixes to existing problems such as specials not connecting from hit confirms etc. After the first changelog we made a new list which was pretty much just ignored and they released their second changelog with a bunch of changes. After seeing that changelog we thought it would be best to try to ask for buffs that went along with where their Gouken changes were going (i.e. no one cares about Super for 345 when you can do EX tatsu for 1 bar and 200 but since they buffed it to 3 frames we figured we should ask to make it full juggle so we can get some use off of 4 bars etc).
Anyway, yeah, for the purposes of discussion in the forum it would have been good to keep it all in one place, but as I said, we were linking each individual thread to them after each round of changes. Editing posts suck for me, I can’t change a thread title and I can’t even add more space to certain posts like the moveset and attributes post. I want to add some stuff but it won’t let me add anymore lines…
Doesn’t matter now anyway.
Then I guess it leaves you no choice but best choice.
We will enjoy our glorious mirror matches comrade.
I hate mirror matches so much. I lose to people who never even played Gouken before. So sad.
I’m looking forward to tomorrow night to see what they have changed though. Who knows, maybe they have made tatsu actually work as an anit-air after 3 iterations of this game and all the begging we have done.
Anti-air tatsu tweaks, kongo hitboxes/mapping changes/fixes, and perhaps air-focus/hurricane wiff recovery improvements are what I want to see. Wow, the days flew by, just two days until we see if they actually pay any attention to US SRK!
id take a faster air jab and dj hk. fix kongo to 2 zones , make dbl kongo worth some shit and fix kongo self cancel to recover faser and air parry recovery.I think he needs to be able to react faster in defensive situations. The dbl kongo example , I use one about every 7 or 8 games or so it should hurt more, and if it id it would be more useful. If 1 kongo is 150 2 should be 200 at least…