Fighting Games Are Getting Worse

Why SF Is Getting Worse And The Problem With MVC3 Over MVC2

I?ve been doing a lot of thinking lately and have been taking a look at fighting games in the past few years and really looked at a few very important titles to the competitive gamer. I want to focus on the new MVC title and the SF4 series in general.
First off we all know that SF4 Vanilla was a very defensive title similar to its SF2 Hyper Fighting version. It was a very defensive, projectile based, heavy damage output game. Everyone did INSANE amounts of damage (Sagat) and people died to dumb shit. Lol. When SSF4 came out Sagat was nerfed, Ryu was nerfed, and balance changes were made and the addition of 10 new characters. (Most of which were built to be offensive. IE. Ibuki, Dudley, Cody, Makoto) Now, with the announcement of SSF4 AE to console we now have even more balance changes and more new characters (Yang, Yun, Evil Ryu, Oni)

Now, what?s the problem with this? The problem with SF now is that the game is slowly turning into an aggressive title. When SF4 Vanilla was out the player was HEAVILY punished for ANY mistake that was made. You jumped in to Sagat? FADC ultra. You?re probably dead. You missed a combo against ryu? FADC ultra. There goes half of your health. Bye! In a sense, you were punished really hard for any mistake that you made because you were CARELESS. (Remember that word)
With SSF4 coming out damage reductions were made so now people could play a bit more CARELESS because damage output is not as bad. So basically, you could make more mistakes in a match. When a company introduces offensive characters and decreases damage output overall what does that scream to you? They want to make the game more accessible to people who do not want to learn and develop. By decreasing damage output it makes the game more fun and enjoyable to the casual player. If I play some random kid online and beat him with ryu in Vanilla SF4 on 3 mistakes?.hes probably not going to want to play often, right? But if he can make 8-9 mistakes?.it?ll be more appealing and fun. He can be more CARELESS and have FUN. But how is this BAD for SF? What does it say about the games direction if they do this? It simply means that people are lazy and do not want to take the time to learn, in a sense. People are complaining about damage output? They?ll patch it in a second because it won?t make $ if its not easy and more accessible to the general public. No offense, but the competitive community is NOT priority AT ALL guys.
Now lets finally take a look at AE. AE looks like it?s going to be more aggressive in comparison to the original SF4 Vanilla. Yun, Yang, Fei, Gief, Ken, and all AGGRESSIVE characters running around doing dive kicks, kara throws, shoryukens, EX palms, building meter full screen to spam safe stuff, and a bunch of crap. Dudley is getting better, Ibuki has better bnb, Makoto is better, Dee jay, etc. What?s happening is that it?s creating a random game. By making a game that?s offensive with lower damage output (Abel, E Honda, Guile) you?re creating a game that?s more random. If defense is bad in a game than it will be a battle of who has the better offense and can be more random. By defeating defense you?re just not going to ?care? and just be more ?Careless? because you won?t be punished as hard now?so why not?

When you destroy defense in a video game you destroy thought process and thinking and actually reading someone and knowing what they were ?planning?. Take older video games for example. In Mario, do you just run around and hop on every pipe and zip through the level? In Contra, do you just run through the game and shoot everything? In final fantasy do you just use use random attacks all the time and win every battle? In Checkers do you randomly advance? No. You WAIT and see PATTERNS and react. Those of you who played Nintendo back in the day?you know EXACTLY what I?m getting at.

Is there a high level of game play for SSF4 and AE? Of course. You bet. But it?s BETTER as a defensive game. Anything is better if its defensive because you think before you do something.
Defense and punishment incorporates thinking. If you?re not going to be punished hard, throw that shit on.

Marvel:
Now onto Marvel. I think MVC3 is probably the most fun game I?ve played in a long time. The problem is though, its simply not competitive on any level. Any character can be picked up, anyone can be used, and just apply constant pressure. Any character that cannot apply solid pressure sucks imo. I seriously think Arthur is one of the worst characters in the game. The entire game is built around who can create a better offense. So in a sense, who can be more random and come up with the most unblockables and crap. The punishment is there just like old SF but EVERYONE in the game can dish out amazing damage. So I?m just going to pick the characters that can build meter, not need to burn it, can play offense and defense, and spam random crap because you can?t punish me. (Wesker, Amaterasu, Zero, Wolverine, Dante, Doom) How many times do people lose because of X Factor? How hard is it to kill someone while in X Factor? Shits simple. How many times are you RANDOMLY caught with an assist and lose because of some random lucky combo they caught you in? How many times do you work sooo hard and do so much work and lose because of X Factor? The height of the meta game is aggressive characters (Wesker, Doom, Amaterasu, Zero, Magneto, Wolverine, Akuma, She Hulk, Taskmaster) and abusing the DHC scale reset glitch to get max damage. That?s where that game is right now. Defensive characters CAN BE viable but your fucking Chris Redfield, Trish, and Dormammu aren?t going to win majors. You don?t see a team of Chris Redfield, Dormammu, or Trish winning anymore. It?s slowly turning into a more aggressive and random title. If you agreed with what I stated about the SF4 series than you should probably start to see why MVC3 is a joke. It diminishes thought process and is nothing but a game made to appeal the newcomers.
I don?t know much about mvc2 as a title but I did know you just couldn?t pick up random characters and win against any character. That?s the core problem with fighting games now. People think that creating ?balance? in a game makes it ?better.? It doesn?t. Creating ?balance? for people makes it easier for people to play and win and detracts the whole learning process and player development of why they are losing so fast. Yes, it sucks that most fighting games have really skewed tier lists?but that is not why the game should be looked at as ?bad? to new players.

What I?m getting at to wrap this up is that fighting games are not getting better?they are getting worse, because people are getting lazier and less willing to develop and learn. Not to sound pessimistic?but its true. Just take a look at the progression of video games in general and just how much more accessible and easy they are all getting. Halo I to Halo II and III. Smash Brothers melee to Brawl?Blaz Blue to CS, and just any game in general. Games are getting less and less competitive. Think about Third Strike, Counter Strike, The original NES games and how HARD they were compared to Wii games, PS3 game difficulty compared to PS1. ETC.

Hopefully this sparks some discussion. Cheers.

I disagree with your opinions but I respect your ability to have and express them.

Emma Stone is really hot!

Well for Marvel,I personally don’t think being able to utilize the entire cast is a con. Seeing different characters come out on top at tourneys is pretty cool.

I dunno about you, but I thought 3S was actually a very offensive oriented game compared to ST or SF4, I know in Japan they refer to Parrying as “Offensive Blocking” if I recall correctly. You’d still get punished for huge mistakes in 3S though, but it felt generally more aggressive to me than other SF installments.

One of my favorite games, Garou:MOTW, being able to create a strong offense and mix-up is important, and the damage values in the game were very high. A single mistake could cost you big time, while being too defensive could cost you dearly due to guard crush, but you had abilities like being able to Just Defend and Guard Cancel to turn the tide.

Dont Jump is on the path to enlightenment. Some of your stuff is fuzzy but if you thought about it more, you’d figure it out.

I personally like games with incredibly unsafe offense. It’s all taste yo.

a good game has a good balance between offense and defense, if one is stronger than other you have a problem
there is nothing good if your game punish you because you take the iniciative, there is a difference on a game letting you playing on the offense and rewarding you for being careless, being more balanced on the defense offense departament dont make the games worse, or its just because you cant turtle now till dead that makes the game bad now?

The sky is falling, the sky is falling

I guess another way you could put is that people are unable to take a game as it is and learn and develop the way it was originally made. Now, people just complain and video game companies can patch it to negate any complaints. Years ago, a game was what it was…you had to play that final build. There was no “live update” crap to take care of issues. You had to deal with it, adjust, and just suck it up. This technology to constantly update and “fix” fighting games is destroying any form of depth or learning process that a game gives off.

I think that defensive fighters are 10X better because offensive fighting games lead to random balogni. That’s really all it is.

Think about Cammy VS Ibuki, Ibuki VS Abel, Dudley VS Abel, Cammy VS Abel etc. All of those matches are about “Whoever starts their offense going first wins.” In a sense, this means that whoever can create more offense and be more random and unpredictable. It’s garbage and its dumb. Look at ryu vs guile, guile vs guile, sagat vs guile. It’s all about who can be more defensive and more lame. Is it dumb and boring to watch? Yeah. But its more of a thought process other than random crap. Mirror matches between offensive VS defensive mirrors is a wonderful quick way to understand why defense is better and makes more sense for fighting games.

Interesting idea that a large chunk of the cast doing well is a bad thing.

Sup 5 versions of SF2.

while i agree with alot of this post… and the concept of repeated patching annoys me, it’s been happening (to a slower extent) for years

SF2, patched to SF2CE, to SF2HF, to SSF2, to SSF2T…

SFA3, retweaked as SFA3:UPPER, then again as SFA3: Double Upper

SF3, SF3 Double Impact, SF3 Third Strike…

It’s because people refuse/are afraid to play good games like AH3 and MB when they’ve definitely become pretty damn good games over the years.

i miss guilty gear.

guilty gear, ST, and CvS2. RIP :frowning:

RIP old fun games. HD US PS3 games are the future.

Edit: I think AH3 isn’t HD or something, that must be why Wizard doesn’t want it for EVO.

No, he already said it was an old game. It’s time to move on.

  • Sees topic, complains that fighting games are getting worse. Picks a game from Capcom *

Oh SRK, I luv u

so if a game doesnt go by your personal preferences the game is bad, nice :rofl:
its only your opinion based merely on your taste, if the game is better or not by being offensive it certainly something about how is the flow on the game, a good game allows different type of strategies and play styles, rushdown, turtling, and everything that involves both of them; as i said if the game doesnt have a good balance between offense and defense you have a bad game, sf4 was a truly bad game because of that, you didnt have a good balance between offense and defense

Yo, I need to get on some higher level shit before I start readin this.

Funny that.