I do agree with that; a special move should usually have some caveat with it to make it balanced, other than just taking up stock. For instance, a projectile super, even if its safe can usually be jumped over if not having a recovery time, instant start-up supers usually are fair by not doing much damage or are not safe on block, grab supers do tons of damage but have little range, that sort of thing.
Stuff in Marvel like hailstorm, HSF or AHVB are just plain broken, and that’s certainly one of the things that kept me away from marvel for years.
Also Crisium: I assume you’re talking about some move in GGXX, but I can’t think of one right now. That’s one of the more balanced games, I think but feel free to refresh my memory because I know I’m forgetting something…
I’m not talking about combos. In fact, I’m learning infinities for some of my characters in MvC2, so yeah…
I’m curious why you think those supers in MvC2 aren’t broken. Hailstorm is free chip; all you need to do space with AAA or get them in block during the tornado, pretty much the only way to stop it if the Storm player is stupid and does it in a corner (you can catch them with a AA or something) or by using Megaman’s Buster shots.
HSF does excellent chip, links INTO itself (I hate that), you tack on the mouth beam and rocket punch, and is safe on block. I think the only way is to attack above his head if you jump fast enough, because even getting behind him is dangerous.
AHVB, nuff’ said. No recovery, excellent chip, combos into itself, safe on block…
AHVB for chip, you can get out of (and why the fuck would you waste multiple AHVB’s for chip?)… if you only do one for chip, then it’s not anything more than what sentinel gets with storm assist… three - four flying kicks + a ground thing or two + typhoon… Seriously, this game isn’t built on pixels of health (despite wong’s two low-life comebacks in majors)… Sometimes you even will take more damage intentionally…
Hailstorm doesn’t do THAT much chip. It’s a great punishment and spacer… but if they were broken as you said, you’d see Wong, Sanford, Yipes, etc. abuse them in a match. They play the game, the work the technical shit, and they counter what you do. They don’t abuse these “broken” supers
Well okay. But they are all safe on block, and have the abuse factor which is what my main point was. They are all really good supers and can easily turn the tides of a match.
Gameplay mechanics… You could go character specific like some dudes can air dash while other can’t or double jump. Do you want every character to share the same mechanics?
Wtf was that? That was some UGLY fucking Marvel, even for low tiers vs Santhrax
The first one done on Hulk… you try to abuse your assists, and you eat hailstorms… Why would you throw a random attack out if you just got hit by commando? You’re obviously NOT going to be near Storm… (at least a smart Storm)… He deserved to eat that shit.
You want to see what happens when you rely on hailstorm?
[media=youtube]MmrmJSXVQZA[/media]
watch the end…
What does desmond go for and gets destroyed for it?
Go watch GOOD players and see what happens when you abuse hailstorm.
it’s funny that you said only mega busters can counter it…
OK…
Megabusters, you’re right
Psyshots
TK Shinku hadoken
Frame Kill hailstorm
Frame Kill Proton Cannon
TK AHVB
TK EM disrupter
Strider, Bison, Spiral can teleport away from it
Sentinel has nothing, but you know what? Sentinel doesn’t need anything for hailstorm as he does fine enough as is.
Seriously, what year did you play this game in?
Oh, one more thing:
You ever notice that players will sometimes jump into the hailstorm… you do know what that’s for, right? they land and instant recovery from block stun, so you can get away from that “anti air” b/s to set up hailstorm chip. Wasting hailstorms is dumb… Doing chip for a little is fine… it applies pressure… but seriously… if yo’ure losing, i’d rather hope to get a hit and use my hailstorm… my meters are my weapons here… if i’m winning, why risk giving the match up by applying pressure with hail? unless it’s enough to kill a character, what’s the point?
Oh…you mean “Psy BLAST”, not “Psy shot”. She has Blade, Blast, and Maelstrom. Hate when people try to rename moves that the characters clearly say themselves during play. That’s like telling somebody they’re pronouncing their own name wrong.
i don’t know the names of the moves of most of the characters that i use in any game, beacuse quite frankly, i don’t give a fuck… i say psylocke’s fireball… magneto’s beam… etc… i know what the move does, i know how to execute it… psy-shot isn’t that hard to figure out… i mean… if i said magnetic grab… do you think you can figure out, “hyper grav” or “hyper grab” or whatever the fuck it is?
We were not debating whether Marvel is broken, we were discussing balance of those specific super moves. And I don’t think the original poster so much asked for help as he was encouraging discussion over this.
Not really…I’d think that shit was a new move, since I’ve known for over 12 years that it was Hyper Grav. I could see if the character didn’t say shit while doing the move, like Felicia’s Sand Splash, or cvs Ken’s Ryuusen Kyaku, but when there’s vocals…
Well first off I’m loving the feedback thusfar…I may have misinterpreted the term ‘Perfect Game Engine’ What I meant was something a little comfortable for all players to jump in on. I’m very sorry to all on this forum if I gave you the idea that I was creating this godlike engine. I generally suck at 2d fighters so I wanted a l33t opinion from some (what I consider) the best fighting gamers in the world. That’s why I came here. Because everyone here has a rep and are very good at these games. And through that, you are more insightful than I. I guess I’m trying to connect with my target audience. I don’t want to base anything off of my scrubbiness. I did love parry but ppl told me that would turn off the audience to the game. I just want to bring something good to the people with ideas and examples from the people. It may sound corny and I’m very sorry for that.
Keep the help coming. I don’t want to stray too much on MvC2 but I appreciate your concerns on what not to do.
I’m originally from Buffalo! Welcome to the board!
AS for what I’d like to see, balance for one (which would probably entail few character choices, but that’s not necessarily a bad thing), interesting characters, non broken game mechanics. I’d say, strive for those first and foremost. Take some of your favorite elements from different games and try to work them into your game.