Revelator added trhow techs again on GGXrd, they window is small so you don’t really see them often.
Oh, I thought there was only the animation for when both characters throw at the same time.
How is it more commitment?
Especially if you are being framed trapped
And throws aren’t a big part of the game when you can be counter hit for sidestepping
Unseeable lows and lightning fast moves
And the throw is literally a guess
The animation is the same for both breaks
Your premise might work for 2d games some what but not 3D where movement is more amplified.
I can’t even understand it in 2d where you are anticipating throws rather then reacting
Throws aren’t a big part of sc and they probably won’t be unless you are sc2 ivy
I’m not going to act like I understand SC5 mechanics and high level play.
Movement is pretty strong, IG is damn near broken, losing round reward you with meter. A mechanic like the throw break still dealing damage is welcome so offensive is’nt gimped. I;m pretty sure thier also throw invul moves and hoping works too. Just like
I don’t like game that baise favors offense or defense. What I dislike is Poor/limited to no defensive option but this case by case things and don’t think these games are bad, they just reward a certain gameplay and that is fine but not my cup of tea. Not every fighter needs to be alike.
I just tend to prefer games where both sides have risk and rewards. though I love games where defense mechanics have mix up potential. Melty Blood which arguably is offensive heavy game still provide multiple defense option with vary risk and rewards. Some are beaten by reaction, or prediction and its vice verse.
I dislike fighter where the first person gain momentum easily and maintains it easily with little to no ability of the disadvantageous person to switch it up. Granted if the game is difficult in space control so closing in is challenge than I’m not oppose to offense being very strong. Like in Kof and GG games i feel offense is strong once its established but getting their is tricky first, if my character the type that lacks strong neutral then I can at least position myself so my opponent have to take high risk action action to start their offense.
So, parry mechanics.
I’m curious whether people like them at all, and what form of parry mechanics people prefer.
Only game that i liked their parry implementation was BattleFantasia.
In general I find parries to be unnecessary homogenization. I absolutely loathe them in SF3 series, they completely destroyed most of what made Street Fighter good and to me marked the start of the decadence of the saga. I find that kind of whiff-less parries to be a terrible mechanic. Applies to Garou’s Just Defenses, which are even worse since they recover life and require even less commitment.
I can live with parries if they are limited to a certain character or are balanced in such a way that they don’t hurt zoning that much. Guilty Gear parries are a good example.
3 strke is one of the worst version of parry design with yata being some what passable. Yata does’nt have whiff animation but mis used still punish you with counter hit damage with possible follow up potential and Parry disable for time. Though Yata still has some
OS with their current design.
Parrying didn’t directly ruin zoning as Blitskampf, Battle fantasia, and yata have them and zoning still strong. This is due to the fact most character could travel behind these projectile and start an offense around it, punishing parry attempts.
Just defend is a commitment because strong opponent will frame trap pressure with feint cancels after regular block which can’t be Just defend. Just as defenders needs to be mind of how the aggressor attacks the aggressor should mind how their opponent going to defends. Garou offer enough option to mix up your attack to disorient the defender. I just think life recovery can be modified a bit, outside of that its fine as it is.
I lean on Melty shield version being one of the better design parry with Chaose code, Blitzkampf, and Blade arcus right behind it.
I still think Phantom Breakers “Hard style Nullify attack” is still the best implementation of just defend. Nullify physical attack but loses to projectiles. Can be used in frame traps but still lowers guard meter value, heck can still be guard crush from it too.
There’s variations of the parry mechanic?
Here’s the mechanics I hate:
Street Fighter Alpha 3 - V-Ism
Guilty Gear - Instant Kill
Dragon Ball Z Burst Limit - QTE Clashes (don’t know how exactly they are called)
Street Fighter IV - Focus Attack and Ultra Combo
Mortal Kombat 9 and X - Breaker, Stance Change (seriously why it’s even there?), Block Button and EX Move inputs (motion + attack button + block button)
Injustice - Stage Transitions
Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm - Items (they are completel useless and a waste of money)
Street Fighter X Tekken - Gems and Pandora
Dragon Ball Z Ultimate Tenkaichi - QTE mid-combos (literally Rock-Paper-Scissors and completely luck based)
Tekken 6, Tag 2 and 7 - Rage Mode
The King of Fighters XIII - HD Mode
Street Fighter V - Backroll recovery
Any fighting game which has it - Resurrection (examples - Third Strike, Mahvel 3, MKX)
There are several. The pioneer was World Heroes 2, that enabled you to reflect projectiles by blocking at the last moment, Just Defend style. Then there’s Samurai Shodown 2 parries, which are similar but work only for slashes and cause a stagger that leaves the opponent open to attack. That game also has disarms, which kinda work like parries but have a whiff animation and are available only when you are disarmed. You grab the opponent’s weapon and flip him over, disarming him to even things out.
There’s SF3 parries which have no whiff (so they can be easily “buffered” in strings) and nullify blockstun, chip and pushback, can be cancelled with any attack, and work against anything that’s not a throw. Last Blade has reflects, which are parries for physical attacks only, have whiffs and cause stagger. Just Defends nullify guard damage, recover life and gain meter (although don’t completely nullify blockstun IIRC) and can only be special cancelled. Akatsuki Blitzkampf has parries that are similar to SF3 but have whiff animation and have a canned attack as a response that can be followed up. Accent Core parries have no whiff, cost meter but leave you unable to block for like 20 frames.
Those are some variations, 3D games have other kinds of parries too.
I’m a fan of Counters over Parries. Mainly because they’re more limited and have canned responses rather than “go hit them with your big combo,” whiff animations, and often a startup. You generally don’t have a counter for both projectiles (a reflect or absorb) and for strikes plus counters tend to be high or low.
Im not a fan of comeback mechanics that reward the player for losing.
I generally dislike them too but I really like how unlimited supers in the Fatal Fury games work. Some characters get really scary once they are at half life, such as Duck King and his myriad Break Spiral setups. And RB2 Geese suddenly becomes Gief with kara-cancels and projectiles. Matches get very intense at red life.
Wow that sound like really boring and limited mechanics. Why would you want them like that? Why not let them be powerful option so player have more incentive to mix up their pressure?
Because parries tend to define the game around them. They’re a giant pain in the ass to balance well without either being a Parry game or super niche. Counters are just as satisfying to use but far easier to make one leg of a balanced system.
I get that some game get define by certain mechanics but that just how it is. you learn to adapt to it and abuse it your self or learn to counter it. I imagine most developers add certain mechanics with some idea how it’ll shape the game. Some time the mechanics go way beyond what they expect, over shadows others and warping the game, or it manages to act as intended.
Parry it self isn’t bad, but game that mis manage them such as Street fighter 3 make them seem bad. Same with come back mechanics and many more. SNK has had come back mechanics since their older games and no one bats an eye but when thier poorly handle in With SFIV all of sudden their a problem.
Offtopic.
I just want to say that is nice to see how mucn @keo-bas has grown out of the scrub mentallity that he had when he started posting on srk.
Is always good to see fellow players growing and actually becoming better players.
(Huh. I completely missed this thread despite it apparently existing for two months. Nice to see it get some traction given a similar thread that I made about 2 years ago had absolutely zero replies to it.)
Yeah, low-risk high-reward parries are basically the reason why I loathe Third Strike (besides Yun). It’s one of the few games I’ve played where the gameplay got markedly less fun to me the better I got at it–not that I would say I was ever a pro or anything. Oddly, I’m fine with P-Groove in CvS2, but that may just be because a) the parry timing is less forgiving, b) there’s no red parry, and c) P-Groove doesn’t really having anything else going on for it in that game, not even super-canceling–it even has the weakest damaging supers in the game.
That said, I think that parries can work, even as a universal mechanic. It’s just that there has to be at least obvious risk to them rather than maybe getting hit that can’t be option selected. At present though, the only game that I’ve played with parries as a universal mechanic that I liked–or, at least, explicitly remember liking–was in Akatsuki Blitzkampf’s early versions before that game became a overly pastel mess apparently. There the parries are a) obvious with some recovery and b) have set counters that you can still capitalize off of with enough meter or proper positioning with I think basically every character; the last version I played was before Adler though, much less the other characters.
I’m also totally fine with less obvious parries being part of an individual character’s special move set, as in the case of Jam from Guilty Gear or of Ryo Sakazaki from King of Fighters (and Art of Fighting). There are relatively few fighting game mechanics that I think are always bad, and even as much as Third Strike makes me roll my eyes most of the time (even though I’ll gl€€adly still watch Kuroda and few others), parry isn’t one of them to me.
I’ve (a lot) more to say, but I’ll leave it there for now outside of saying that I find it amusing that so far most of this page has been out about games with poorly implemented throw mechanics and yet no one has seen fit to mention one of the most recent offenders: (Ultimate) Marvel vs. Capcom 3. Holy Hades are throws stupid in that game, though they’re hardly the only thing that are absolutely stupid and poorly implemented in that game unfortunately.
but you’re all bad at 3s tho