I’m a small fan of some of your previous writing. I actually read your blog a bit back in the MvC3 days about teams (“Devil May Squeeze”). You even got me aboard the theory-Viper at one time, but that never really panned out (although I feel there was a nugget of wisdom there) I enjoy how you like to extrapolate theory into potential matchups in practice. In this case, from reading most of your posts in this thread, I think you’re veering a bit too much on as an Ibuki apologist. I actually did watch this set a few days before I made my post so I was aware of the results from this set before I typed up my thoughts.
Like you said, Ibuki did get away with a lot more jumps that she should have considering Alex has really passable AA with st.jab. It’s easy for both sides of the argument to say "Well Player A should have done Y but Player B could have done X (etc.). Kunai reloads should be punished w/ ex-elbow, as well…
In general I feel people do not have to respect Ibuki’s dashes as much as say, Laura, because the frame advantage is much worse. Delayed buttons really blows up that stuff. The counter to delayed buttons is the shimmy game, but Ibuki’s proper shimmy-blow-up buttons are a bit slow to put into practice. I also don’t think people need to respect Ibuki’s low hitting game too much and generally people should be stand blocking (reacting low if they see a st.MK into potential sweep TC). It really moves you out of the way of a lot of the mixups, takes away additional blocks strings and tic-throw setups. A defensive player overly respecting holding down-back, and hesitation to hit buttons, are most people’s down fall when playing against Ibuki. Throughout the match, Alex almost never challenge a command dash with a button. Maybe if he did, Ibuiki could have made the adjustment to start frame-trapping but that next level of the thinking game did not have to be shown by the Ibuki player.
Curiously, I’d like to know more about the background of the match. I think Majorboy is probably the top Ibuki at the moment from online demos, but I really question Alex’s familiarity in this match up. I’m more on board with the Ibuki Kool-aid in this matchup if I saw more button challenges from Alex and Majorboy is still able to school Alex.
I just hopped over and did a quick search on the Alex forum to see what they think about Ibuki. Seems like most posts in the last week or so seem to say the matchup is 5-5, so there is that.
Thanks for being a fan. Yeah Viper was strong, just you had to make her the center of your team to bring out her true power. She wasn’t a character you got the most of just throwing her in second or 3rd spot so that meant you pretty much had to be a specialist to use her. You couldn’t just throw her on the team like a Doom or Vergil and just learn basic things.
Well ideally at high level in the future Ibuki players aren’t going to chancing getting sweep target blocked. You’re going to counter hit confirm it off LP/MP/c.MP, one hit confirm it, or use it as a whiff punish so the sweep doesn’t get blocked. Forcing the sweep target on a block is just hoping you’re catching them sleeping and not often worth the risk. Luckily Majorboy hasn’t caught on to the strong ass meaty reset stuff after TC into MK command dash otherwise his pressure would be even more nasty.
It’s true that the Alex player had no idea that command dash after buttons was negative, but I don’t really think that alone completely turns the matchup around for a character that still has 4 frame lights and a slow V Reversal as their only defensive options with no true reversal. Ibuki players will just adjust and use more frame trap stuff and just use the command dashes more sparingly to catch people sleeping as they are hard to react to if used inoften.
Ibuki was always designed to not have a strong low game. That’s how she’s been since 3S. She’s a character that’s always focused on grounded left/right mix ups (which most characters in SF don’t have regular access to) and overhead pressure so they force her to have poor low conversions to compensate. You still use your lows to check people walking backwards and keep them from standing when you need to though.
Majorboy knew more what to do vs Alex than LightSnake did vs Ibuki, but overall I still see the match going where both are looking to press momentum. With Ibuki’s momentum being more dangerous for Alex than his is vs her. Just he offsets with better neutral buttons and solid punishes against bad attempts to kunai reload if he has charge. You can try to eye whether or not Alex is holding for a charge then reload according to that.
For some reason Chris G was playing a lot more modestly than I would expect him to, but I think this helps to show that the matchup can clearly go in Ibuki’s favor really quickly. Just like I explained earlier, Champ’s Sim throws next to no arcing fireballs against Ibuki. The problem with that for Sim is that he can’t do a lot of his offense safely without that fireball in the middle of the screen. Which means Champ was very respectful of Ibuki’s movement and options. Sim can still zone in this game, but his zoning is nowhere near as strong as it was in IV and it can’t win matches solely like in IV.
Chris G had a lot of situations especially when Sim was in the air with V Skill where he could have just MK command dashed in and started pressuring, but he took a more modest waiting approach. Eventually as the set goes on you can see Chris G clearly put him in situations where once Champ is dealing with Ibuki pressure, he usually doesn’t get out till he’s nearly dead. I think if a more rushdown/command dash heavy player like majorboy was fighting him he wouldn’t have room to breathe at all.
I see this staying as a very comfortable matchup for Ibuki and most likely going in her favor.
Honestly I find it better to just put yourself at a range where she can’t do dropkick and if she does I just v-reversal if it manages to touch me. This makes it so you don’t really have to deal with the mixup she can do between her target combo or command throw. Obviously you can still punish either accordingly if you guess correctly though.
If she’s being predictable with it and I’m expecting it, I react with st.HK CC, LP Raida
If I react late, I like to do st.LP xx LK Dash which can crossup, either way I get free pressure.
You can also do slide, which beats it clean. Slide is usually unsafe on hit at that range, but since Mika is airborne, your slide hits on a later active frame and it is usually -1 on hit at the worst, often times it is between 0 and +3
If all else fails, V-Reversal it on block and then MK dash for a free meaty. You can react to quickrise/backrise and delay your st.MP if necessary.
From watching that majorboy set vs alex, I realize what I’m wanting to see more is a high level Ibuki player with a strong neutral sense. I feel like the Ibuki vods I’ve seen all show players who rely on gimmicks and slip ups from the opponent and then win the game back with v-trigger, rather than playing solid neutral and winning without memes. I really feel like Ibuki’s neutral tools are strong enough to justify playing like that, just with a different emphasis than you usually would, to fit her stronger whiff punish game.
Majorboy has started to play more solid. He jumps and command dashes less than he used to. He’s still the most setup/pressure oriented Ibuki out there so he still is going to play his Ibuki to press and do the occasional command dash mix up.
I feel the most rigid Ibuki is Isa. If you want to watch an Ibuki that mostly sticks to the neutral game, he’s the best one to watch.
A mix of both. I generally start the match vs anyone new trying some command dash stuff. It’s basically free damage if they don’t react to it. You can figure out pretty quick if someone can react to it and then stick to the neutral game from there.
I basically change depending on my opponent and the situation, but usually play the neutral more.
How do you guys approach Urien? I’m finding it very difficult to play footsies with him and work my way inside. Dash mixups don’t really work well vs solid people. I try to keep my jumps to a minimum but still do it once in a while as Urien doesn’t have the best AA; but that’s not enough.
Play footsies. Use your tools to sit on his fireballs, bait out ex reversal when he has meter, pressure the shit out of him otherwise. I don’t think he really destroys ibuki in neutral because our walk speed is better by an amount.
IMO playing footsies with him is not good. His buttons are better and reach further. If he has vtrigger it’s extremely dangerous. His cr.mk range is really good, so is st.hp. I play this matchup almost nightly and what worked a bit for me last night was just staying away… almost like he’s Gief. Pester him with kunai and vskill and try to punish any mistakes, once in a while hope to jumpin when he’s pressing buttons. Trying to runaway the entire time is hard though and I’m just looking for any tips vs Urien. Also once I’m inside it’s not too bad cause he only has ex.headbutt to reversal with and no fast normals. Getting inside is really rough for me.
oh my god this matchup…
I dont know if its because the character is new but I literally have not won a single match against this guy.
Footsies seems almost impossible, he has better buttons that do way more damage. Vskill is the only thing you have, but it kind of looses to his s.HP.
Once he has one bar you cant even pressure him anymore because hes gonna wake up dp. Maybe not the first, maybe not the second but certainly the third time and then ageis and its over.
I hope some of you guys can find something…
I enjoy how you like to extrapolate theory into potential matchups in practice. In this case, from reading most of your posts in this thread, I think you’re veering a bit too much on as an Ibuki apologist. I actually did watch this set a few days before I made my post so I was aware of the results from this set before I typed up my thoughts.