Oh yeah! I’m very much looking forward to it! I just have to wait a little longer till my brother graduates.
I just don’t see how the word of a guy who has been there a couple times is worth more then immigrants who lived there and left because they hated it.
Hard to value the word of a tourist over people who spent far more time there and left due to all that time spent there.
This thread still lives???
How about my word? I live in Cuba and I’m not talking to cameras or the press or writing a blog. I’m sitting at home telling the truth with no pressures. Why would I lie? What do I gain? Nothing. Nobody knows I’m writing this stuff except for you guys who are checking it. Also studying in a foreign country is not the same as being a tourist.
What is funny is that people dont acknowledge that Robin Hood in modern popular culture is not a fable about somebody who robbed from the rich to give to the poor, but rather one who stole from a corrupt local govt/sheriff/tax collector and returned the funds to the townspeople. The Robin Hood fable is rooted in anti-state sentiment as in the period anyone not connected to the govt had no means of becoming wealthy. The fable only grew as the european enlightenment took hold (and that is no coincidence). You bringing up this topic is ironic because in defending the Castro communist regime your argument is in direct opposition to the Robin Hood narrative. Look at the opulence and extra rights the govt officials enjoy in the communist state and look at how destitute the citizenry is in comparison. Hahaa. How on earth is the Cuban govt a Robin Hood in action? Maybe you or any of the merry fools who cosigned your post could explain. But if you can read what you want into the fable of Robin Hood, I guess you can read what you want into anything including Larsson’s posts which were, in fact, quite enlightening (though maybe not as he had intended):
First of all why would the word of someone who visited Cuba hold any value over the facts? I agree Hecatom certainly sounded self-righteous as he stated his misguided opinion, but of course that is nothing new for him, hahaa. Second, I would take the word of someone who lives in Cuba even less than some dipstick tourist (who gets to stay in hotels that are off limits to Cuban citizens themselves, ha) since such a person has no point of reference other than the brand of oppression that the state has administered across his lifespan.
So they have a death penalty but never use it? Except when they want to to send a message even when nobody dies in the particular instance in question? Ok, got it. Then this is probably worst than ex post facto. This is the definition of a police state and is totalitarianism at its totalitarianism-est.
All the more reason why Animal Farm should be required reading. And the Cuban constitution doesnt make Fidel a mass murderer, killing lots of people does.
I would not try to defend Batista or his regime, just pointing out that the economy was on par with the top tier of Latin America at the time which is in stark, stark contrast to where it is under Fidel. Glad you dont disagree.
I call it Democratic Cuba because Cuba’s leadership was largely democratically elected at the time (interspersed with military episodes). Batista was the president twice (the 1st/only non-white cuban elected to the office i think). His first rule was part of the Republic period where Cuba had a representative democracy (from wikipedia: ‘Cuba had Latin America’s highest per capita consumption rates of meat, vegetables, cereals, automobiles, telephones and radios…’ hahaa). The constitution prevented his re-election and he abided. His second rule he ran for elected office and when it looked as if he would lose the election he grabbed by military coup and became dictator. Wait, …did you not know any of this?
I really do appreciate your perspective, however after our exchange I feel as if my views of Cuba have only been validated. You have, in your own way, confirmed all the ridiculous things I have heard of Communist Cuba (the arbitrary restrictions on internet, phone ownership, home ownership and living quarters, car ownership, censorship, the absolutely cripplingly low wages, irrational cult of personality surrounding the govt leadership etc…). Some of it is really mind boggling and I hope that the people in this thread actually read your responses to me because they were quite enlightening. It is telling that you decry the economic problems but champion Castro despite wanting to move to North America to better your life. And the fact that any of the people reading this thread from relatively free states can read your responses to me and still not see that Cuba is a 3rd world nation because of a rigid state’s poor decisions regarding the economy and real human right violations is a bit disturbing.
Cheers.
If my word doesn’t mean shit to you then our discussion doesn’t make any sense. You should have started there. I thought from reading your posts that you were smarter than that. You seem to be into the trend of ignoring the fact that an exchange student and a tourist are not the same thing. OK, have it your way.
Good work with the death penalty. IT FREAKING EXISTS. Whether you apply it or not is up to the system and judges. Again, if it had been your country getting constantly attacked, your people getting kidnapped and murdered, then your interpretation on this matter would have been entirely different. The US claims to be the most democratic state in the world and the amount of death penalties is disgusting over there. Give me a break for Christ sake!
OK, capitals now: WHEN DID FIDEL KILL LOTS OF PEOPLE? WHEN? If you knew how wrong you are with your claims you’d laugh at yourself.
Our economy sucks plain and simple. I’ve validated all those things you mentioned because it is the truth. But, forgive me if I don’t see how that (again) makes Fidel all the nonsense you guys are calling him.
And God I seriously can’t believe you’re trying to imply I don’t know Cuban history. Did you miss the part I told you I was a lawyer and I teach at a University? You seriously think I don’t know the ins and outs of every constitutional and unconstitutional government to date? One of the subjects I teach is called: History of State and Law in Cuba. I honestly couldn’t but ROFL when I read your attempt to discredit me.
See you.
But that’s not the argument I’m responding top so it’s not really relevant. You’re arguing the validity of Hecatoms word against those of Cuban Immigrants.
I personally don’t care about the conversation about Castro and who is or isn’t right about his qualities as a leader.
I dont dislike you, so I am sorry that my comments are coming across as harsh, but
The Cuban secondary education system is nationalized and run entirely by the government. In that constitution I referenced earlier the education is to be based on Socialist, marxist ideals, and that any deviation from this will result in consequences. It explicitly states that the goal of the education system is to create patriotic, communist citizens. And that any forms of free expression that deviate from the communist ideals of the revolution are expressly forbidden.
So tell me again; why would I take the word of an educator in such a rigid, totalitarian system and a subject/student whom studied under such controlled, censored conditions? Why are you insisting that I accept an argument from authority? You understand the flaw in that line of reasoning, right?
You, instead are arguing that this cult of personality surrounding Castro is just a coincidence despite the efforts of the state to foster this exact sentiment? Really?
I don’t dislike you either. We’re cool.
The main issue here is that you’re assuming all that control and censorship no matter how much I tell you it isn’t like that. Law is a political major in its essence. We question everything in our lectures, there’s a wide variety of opinions. No one gets punished or imprisoned for questioning anything in our universities. Most teachers (the good ones) encourage the debate. You assume we just study Marx, Engels and Lenin, right? Wrong!
Look, remember you asked me about all those stupid restrictions that were lifted just a few years ago? I told you the truth. It is all true. If I wanted to defend our system as a whole because supposedly that’s what my system has taught me, I could have denied it all. But, no, I explained everything you asked in detail. Well, I’m doing the same regarding the other stuff we’re discussing, I’m just telling you the truth…just the truth now is not what you’ve been hearing your whole life.
Its not that I think you just study those things. Its that it appears as anything that contradicts those things (the ideals of the revolution) is not taught. After reading your constitution what else am I to assume? If that is not the case, well then, good; and maybe your constitution should be amended. Right or wrong, it is hard for me to take your word for much of the topics discussed here if only because it is tainted by the cult of personality that you have demonstrated that you are part of. But i do appreciate your candid perspective nonetheless. And I am glad things eventually seem to be moving in the right direction over there.
peace
Oh yeah, that is long overdue, man.