I thought it was the start up that was changed to remove the jab cancel trap, not its recovery…?
Start up looks nerfed, but in exchange the window may be opened
According to kim1234, who has been at the japanese location test, the nerf to rekkas is barely noticeable. Everything that worked before still works now, and he still seems a very solid character.
Here’s the source for anyone interested
I asked Kim1234 about Ultra1 after tenshin and according to him it’s possible. It will be situational but still it’s nice that Fei finally can “combo” into his ultra.
Source:
That’s surprising. If true that pretty much puts Ultra 2 in the bin for good and any option of double Ultra. I don’t understand how it will be “situational” though.
Full Ultra 1 from tenshin seems more over powered than his rekka nerf. I’m not sure what to think of these changes anymore. Seems like the games getting dumber.
It’s situational in the sense that it’s probably going to be a 1 frame link off of a very mediocre command grab. Not OP at all imo
It’s not worth going for a 1 frame link Ultra. He can already attempt that from a CH close mp. Nobody does it now, nobody’s going to do then it if it’s so tight.
Unless they made the Tenshin scale heavily. Remember FLongs U1 is among the most damaging in the game. Brain dead change if you ask me.
That’s why I said it’s not OP, lol
What are you trying to say, that it’s underpowered or overpowered? You seem to contradict yourself…
I’m saying it’s a pointless change that will never get used if it’s a 1 frame link. You’ll miss that 9 out of 10.
If it’s easier than that it’s way over powered. I don’t know the details. Either way leading into an Ultra through command grab seems idiotic to me on a character that’s generally making you shit yourself on wake up as it is. It would make more sense to buff the juggle damage if they wanted his Ultra to come into play.
A sledge hammer is not a replacement for decent tools. I wouldn’t mind seeing Fei in general at a loc test if anyone has any links?
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Totally agree on the sledge hammer thing. It’s a stupid way to make the game more “playable” and emphasizes comeback factors too much. Hopefully they change some property of Tenshin to cause scaling though. I think overall that would make Fei seem less cheap since people complain about it so much already.
I don’t think it’ll be that hard to pull off though. Vanilla Fei could do Tenshin > Super as a 1-framer, and I remember that as being pretty easy to pull. The difference being, that 1-frame link is bufferable. The Ultra will just come out as soon as he’s free.
If Tenshin adds 3-hits to scaling, I think it’s a well deserved compensation from dropping the damage potential from a normal combo down and to make up for the other nerfs. Still though, it’s a dumb thing to do to Fei. I would prefer better fundamentals and worse comeback all-around.
So Eventhubs is reporting something else: http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2013/nov/21/e-honda-has-invincible-command-throw-sagat-u1-connects-fully-corner-and-more-reports-usf4-changes-coming-first-japan-loc-test/
They’re saying that st.LP xx Tenshin will no longer work **on top of ** having faster recovery. So now it seems even more gimmicky than before… So we’re expected to use this naked and hope that it hits so that we can get a full U1? Lame. Why not keep it cancelable and nerf the damage by adding a scaling factor? This is stupid.
Might start playing Elena.
Though I agree with apparently being able to link Tenshin > UC1 to be awkward and somewhat unnecessary for a character like Fei Long, I’d sooner think the removal of the jab cancel and a reduced start up is making the Tenshin less “gimmicky than before.” In the current build, it’s just even more like the Karakusa.
I’m not upset, and was fully expecting them to remove the jab cancel. That kind of setups/tricks/gimmicks and/or shenanigans have been taken away from Fei Long systematically in every iteration. I must say, to see you guys seemingly protesting against it’s removal has me a little taken aback.
If the Rekka range nerf is as a non-issue as reports suggest, and the only apparent nerf to normals is a 4F cr.LK, he’s going to be fine. Though I am curious to know if we’ll still be able to do things like dash Rekka Blanka’s Horizontal Ball.
At this point in time–as Nosone said in an earlier post–we should be fretting more over the TLC some other characters have been treated to. Not whether we’ll still have some dirty tick trap that gets about much use as a raw command grab in most cases.
I see what you mean about “tick traps” being cheap, but I still feel that a naked command grab into Ultra just reeks of stupidity vs. a tick> grab > scaled damage and positioning.
I’m not a fan of Karakusa for that reason (though I appreciate it doesn’t lead to too much damage), and still, after 4 or so years, a tad salty about how grappler characters get such a runaway with one Ultra. I think the game should tilt more to a fundamentals-play and less to 1-off sneak attacks.
I think the only problem with Tenshin in previous iterations is that the damage potential is too high. Adding Ultra to that mix just makes it worse. It’s otherwise something necessary for Fei to make any sort of comeback once the opponent gets a significant lead since D/B is such a powerful tool in SF4 and most of Fei’s “openers” are negative on block.
I would rather see cl.LP xx Tenshin > cl.HP xx HP Rekka = 150dmg max than this.
I agree with both posts for different reasons.
- Jab xx tenshin is bullshit, it’s too strong and practically unavoidable unless you’re mashing, I would agree that it’s a gimmic.
- Tenshin Ultra is bullshit because it’s just a Hail Mary Rufus style play that dilutes the game into scrubbery.
A better buff would have been to introduce either a slightly faster walk speed at the expense of the rekka or give Fei better meter properties via FADC cancels so that he could mix up his game better.
I get what you are saying Nooks but when you continually strip the character back and back it becomes boring. Sure he’ll be fine. We can just cr.mp people to death with the occasional anti air…because that sounds fun!!!
This is getting stupid, Fei is getting more and more boring. But i didn’t expect anything less than him being hit hard with nerfs but now its almost to the point of not even wanting to play him. Gonna go back to Makoto and Guy probably. I mean honestly how many times do you guys actually land Jab xx Tenshin in a match, maybe once or twice unless your spending meter for the ex version. Nosone been awhile man, didn’t think you still fool with this game, seen you messing with CoD alot.
Sup T. That’s my roommate actually. I haven’t been playing much of anything in the last 2 years… Trying to up my Fei game to at least mid-range again. I forgot how tough execution can be, but I guess that’s the biggest challenge.
Agree that realistically speaking, jab xx Tenshin is only a 1-2x a round kind of thing, so if you drop damage to something pathetic it shouldn’t be a concern. I like the variability it gives in Fei’s close-up game since it allows him to be offensive when he needs it. But it definitely shouldn’t be a runaway-technique. As it is right now, you can land a 300-dmg combo, get a knockdown, set-up a meaty Tenshin, and get another 300-dmg combo for another knockdown. That’s too much reward and it tempts people to make it a go-to move for getting a quick win. If you reduce the damage, you change the risk-reward ratio (since DP > FADC > Ultra, or even a naked DP will do significantly more) and make it a positioning tool. I’d be tempted to say that Tenshin should be a pure command grab for XXX damage, but then we’re just playing Abel v2.0.
I guess you guys can have different opinions, but that’s just my 2c.
I definitely like the idea of better FADC metrics to play with though. Fei just needs something to start an offense.
The one thing to take from all this is that there haven’t been any official changes released from Capcom, whereas other have. Abel, Fei, Rose and Ryu are not listed in Capcom’s official change notes. There may be other things that have just not been explored at all, and could be a good (or bad) omen for those characters.
For example, Rose (supposedly) now has full invul up until active frames on her EX Soul Spiral, but it’s been confirmed in Kim1234’s tests that you can now throw her out of EX Soul Spiral.
I still can’t see Fei escaping, seeing what they did to other solid (but not overpowered) characters like Adon and Yun. Fei’s balls are on the block for sure.
Sorry but I still don’t get it. How is a 1-frame link ultra from a shitty command grab “scrubby” and “gimmicky”?
It’s not gonna change anything. They just made it easier to combo after (like it was hard before), but they removed the un-reactable gimmick that st.lp -> tenshin was. Also, Yun and many others already do it “naked”, we just have to start using it differently.