Guile will not be near the top. There was a lot of talk of Ken in the beginning, I still believe he’ll be up there, maybe not quite the hype he was getting early on. Like I mentioned, Evil Ryu and Sagat I wasn’t surprised about at all, I suspect Rolento will either end up low high tier or high mid tier. Yeah, I would put good money Fei will be high mid tier too. Like I mentioned, not a chance for top five, more of a possibility for top ten.
Really the proof is in the pudding, players use characters they think they can win with in a tournament, doesn’t matter if they are bored with them or not. When money’s on the time, fuck boredom with a character. I have seen that before with top players, when the chips get down with their new character in a tourney, many a time they will fall back to their money character. All in all, am curious to see how many top players stick with Fei, or use him when they feel they need him. I wouldn’t be surprised about a general migration of players to Rolento, aka the Focus Breaker, or even Yang.
I don’t see it with Guile, even with the ups. He got some decent buffs, but too many characters can get in and lay down that rushdown pressure in his face still not to mention some of the new characters with their mix ups. He will be better than he was though. Ken will be in the higher tier still I expect. Oni I predict will be somewhere up there too once the top players really start utilizing him. Sanford’s game is really nasty with him right now, and that’s of course pre Ultra.
Its mostly that auto correct ultra. Guiles weakness came from being knocked down and abused on his wakeup. When he has ultra stocked we will have to find extremely creative ways to pressure him. Counter hitting booms will be crucial to that pressure probably. However, thats a lot more difficult then just using a jump set up to make FK’s whiff. Now those are gone because we will eat 300-450 damage from U1.
Edit: Can fei punish that ex roll from rolento? I’ve been trying to find footage of that. The move looks pretty annoying to punish.
DWU makes it impossible to cross him up anyway, U1 or not. God I wish they just get rid of that stupid mechanic.
jlipassassin, I don’t think Rolento is punishable on any of his rolls. I don’t find it a cheap move though, since it’s very easy to see and block, and after you blocked it, he basically loses his pressure.
Speaking of delayed wake up, I think its going to help Fei A LOT. Fei already has three good invincible options on wake up with dp, medium chicken wing, and ex chicken wing. Now he can mix those up with delayed wake up. I think its going to be very hard to mount any form of pressure on Fei himself now.
That’s actually a great point that I hadn’t put much thought into until you mentioned it. The fact that we have 3 invincible reversals combined DWU and with the normal get up options (backdash, focus backdash, etc) is going to make Fei a lot better. I imagine characters will just go for soft knockdowns on him.
DWU makes every single character harder to pressure, not just Fei Long. It makes attacking not worth it anymore and the game boring to watch AND to play, and people will eventually quit it altogether. That mechanic is going to seal the end of SF4, let me tell you.
One of the things that really messes with my opponents (I know they hate it) is that I very rarely quick get up, even when it seems I should. It really throws the rhythm of the match off usually, they keep expecting it and I just don’t do it. There’s a cadence players fall into in a match, if you break that it can throw off their timing and trip them up. Especially if they play mindless rushdown. Now I expect everyone will be running with the concept due to DWU, ie breaking the rhythm/flow of the match. People will adjust though, but it will be entertaining to watch in the beginning if people go crazy with it.
Checking out Rolento videos, I am pretty happy I mained him in SFxT. Looks like a blast to play in this one as well. He is a really fun character, can’t wait.
I don’t think it will be that bad Duaie… lol I’ve seen people come up with DWU setups. It’s just an extra mix up. You can clearly see cammy and ibukis pressure is still VERY good and they will probably still end up being top tier.
I agree 100% with Wao. There’s a tension that I don’t feel with any other game beside SF4, and that’s what I love about it.
I hate how they handled the “okizeme is too stronk” issue. It’s like as if throws were too strong, so they removed throws altogether, without even considering that throws are what this game is based on.
@jlipassassin
Exactly. This means DWU is officially useless, because nerfing vortex characters was the very reason why that mechanic was invented to begin with. It’s basically a nerf to all other characters, and not to the ones that actually needed to be nerfed.
All right, rant over. Sorry for the OT, but talking about this just gets on my nerves.
Sorry I should have explained further. It isn’t USELESS. What it does is add an extra mix up. For example:
In Ibukis case… she knocks you down with neckbreaker. Player has to say DWU or not?
If not, go to regular kunai setup from AE2012 very ambiguous,
if yes, regular jump xup (will always crossup if he guessed DWU but you did regular get up) react to technical message and throw kunai… not as ambiguous as ae 2012.
You see there is that extra mix up added there. Definitely makes it a little less insane for the attacker but still gives them good oki. Now ibuki is the best example of this.
I’ve seen kazunoko as seth use a DWU on mago and the xup was sick because mago didn DWU. He did the same DWU set up a second time and mago regular got up. However there was no uppercut (people are more afraid to reversal from DP FADC being -5) so Kazu was able to get an empty low short into combo.
You see all it does is add an extra mix up to the initial guess will they do it or not? Even if you guess wrong people are less like to reversal now and the pressure isn’t dead completely. Its also still less stupid for the vortex characters.
I know what DWU does. I didn’t mean useless in the sense that it’s too weak, I meant that DWU’s purpose (which is to nerf vortex characters) isn’t fulfilled at all, since vortex characters can still rape you. On the other hand, it nerfs other non-vortex characters for no reason whatsoever, and characters that NEEDED that knockdown mixup to open up opponents are unfairly punished.
And no, there’s no “extra mixup”. If I, the attacker, guess a regular WU and the opponent does a DWU, I will just land and that’s it. I can still pressure him, sure, but that’s exactly the same as approaching the opponent from the ground, or as if the opponent blocked the crossup.
On the other hand, if I guess DWU and the opponent does a normal WU, it’s a free punish for him because my jump-in is not a safe jump!
So yeah, it adds another layer of guessing, but it’s in the opponent’s favour, not mine. And while this makes the game more fair balance-wise, it also makes it infinitely slower and more boring.
That’s what I meant by extra added mix up. That initial guess of will they WU or DWU? And yeah they can punish if you guess wrong but DP FADC -5 makes them less likely to reversal. They did that for exactly this reason. I still think its in the attackers favor because of this.
Just curious, now that Fei’s lp rekka distance is less, does that mean that it might be more safe doing it from closer ranges that would normally be unsafe? My thought is that less distance means that it doesn’t leave fei as close as it normally would on block. I’m curious if even a blocked max range cr. lp xx light rekka might be relatively safe against most of the cast now.
yeah its a tradeoff. looks easier to hit second active frame and space well but cant punish as many things as easily or force you to spend bar for ex (probably hondas headbutts for ex.)
Also its easier to space well on block as weird as that sounds. In a way this nerf isn’t REALLY that bad it only forces us to punish some things that we could with lp rekka before with ex rekka now.