I actually meant the use of it after fadc flame kick since mk chickenwing still gets all 3 hits and 10 more damage. But yeah about hk chickenwing giving us that +4 on hit and that 50/50 on block. Was thinking of hk chickenwing now as a EX chickenwing with no invincibility but a higher arcing angle. Still curious about its nerf though since hk chickenwing is one of the most easily stuffable move ingame and I have never once use it raw unless i manage to backdash out of an spd for a free combo.
Well for a start, he’s a frame trap monster. Now with the benefit of having a good walk speed which instantly = better footsie’s. I’m not saying he will be derp, I’m saying all we got was a jab and that put us into S because of the other balance changes. Personally , I’ve never thought of Fei Long being derpy, he’s just solid with a great range of tools. People usually shoe horn characters into derp status when they go top tier wether they are or not.
If anything this game has proved that little tweaks can have a massive effect across the board.
i dont think he’s top 5.
fei is going to be worse in this version than he was in super. the only improvement he has is ex rekka.
in super he lost to most charge characters, and had many even matches. it dosent take a whole lot to swing a 5-5 into a disadvantage
i predict his losing matches will be
chun, honda, guile, bison, akuma, rog, and vega. then theres charaters who got small buffs who i thought had decent matches before, like cody and rose. then theres blanka, who’s main problem was getting stuck in the corner, and now has a knockdown ex up ball
he might still be top 10ish, but you cant be in that top 5 conversation if his matches turn out like that
I dont see Fei losing to Chun, Honda, Bison and Vega. Guile, Akuma (as always) and Rog will beat Fei. Guile gets his 3 frame air throw back so that will give Fei fits depending how they altered his CW hitboxes. Akuma will still beat Fei as his vortex mixup and his palm squash U2. Rog got his damage back and he can punish Fei with his jab.
Cody has gotten better so it will be harder as it will be with Rose, I feel it may get a little harder with Rose due to us losing cl.mp>cw. Twins shouldnt be as bad as they cant punish Fei as easy as before. In all honesty Fei loses if he can have his rekka punished. And Im talking about just 1lp rekka on block. Once the other player puts this into our heads he can punish rekka on block we are now out of 1 option.
Damage output is down but he to me on paper at this moment is still top 10. He can still punish so many characters that I feel that he is in good shape. Blanka is always a pain in the ass and now it will be more of a pain with knockdowns with blanka balls, but if there blocked he is screwed. Geif I feel will win this matchup with his buffs and our damage nerfs.
Fei loses to Vega in this version as well since he cant throw safe rekkas since Vegas long ranged pokes can punish and has better footsies, Bison and Chun, have been alot for Fei i can see Chun and Rog being his hardest MU’s in 2012.
Fei is even with Vega, if you walk him down into the corner he is done. He can poke all day and those pokes dont chip. And if he tries to wall dive away 2 quick dashes to a LP rekka hits him. Now with Cosmic heel being -3 on block thats a punish into a rekka. Let Vega back flip all he wants in the corner OS it or just wait and grab his ass. I play German Luger and other strong Vega’s so I dont feel lost in this matchup.
Bison I dont fear anymore as st.lp beats Bison’s mk/hk. Once you have a life lead on Bison he is done. He has to jump in or forward dash to grab, which if he does that you just throw your jab, it beats most of Bisons options besides cr. kicks. If he is in the corner and tries to EX. P.crusher out of the corner thats a instant rekka punish if you space yourself at the correct distance
Chun is another get the lead on her and she can throw normals all she wants. If she jumps in just throw HK or DP it. She floats when she jumps so its a easy AA punish. Remember I cried about everything now I study this game so much I learned what can be done. Thats why I really dont care about Fei’s nerfs. I dont know other characters so I am unsure what there buffs will translate to unless I fight that character
I agree with Mike on this also, Fei will be worst than he was in super hell maybe even back to vanilla status. HK CW doing same damage as light and Ex, without the startup invincibility making it impractical to use, damage down on all Fk making comeback potential worst than it has been before due a combination of damage nerf on MK FK and HK CW, wonder if 2 meters is worth the FADC after a FK now. Will have to manage meter alot better now for decent rekka pressure, EX CW for combo and escape ability. In super Chun, Bison, and honda were tough matches for fei, bison and chun due to their pokes and walk speed, bison being one of the characters that can punish 1x lp rekka, and honda because of his damage, in AE fei damage was a little better than honda which allowed you to fuck up more with out risk of dying from 4-5 hits from honda, now that Fei’s overall damage is down honda will be right back to sit on a good life lead and holding down back waiting for you to move forward or jump. Charge characters period have been a struggle for Fei prior to AE. Vega’s pokes are god-like due to range and speed and his standing light kick… that fucking knee is ridiculous. Fei will be still decent just back to work more for our wins…just like the good old days. Once the mental factor people have that Fei is S tier wears off, they won’t be scare of his damage anymore.
as the others said, vega beats fei in AE, and this is feis best version. you can never safely rekka vega. ever. and his footsies are way better than fei in every other aspect. not to mention he got more buffs. the -3 you saw was point blank. right now in AE, its worse than that.no good vega player will ever do cosmic heel at a range where you can punish. in fact he might end up +1 at the most optimal range
chun and bison were 5-5 matches at best in AE, IMO, and fei got nerfed, and they got buffed. it only makes sense that he would have a tougher time in those matches without jab sweep, or his amazing damage
honda just got his lp headbutt AA back, and he got damage buffs.
fei should still be ok in the matches where he can dominate the ground, but those matches where he had lacking or even footsie tools to his opponent just got harder
ran some damage numbers thru the calculator for 2012
HPxxDP, fadc, CW from 352 down to 308
HPxxxEX DP- 300 down to 290
CW, HPxxxRekkas- 366 down to 326
CW, HPxxxDP, fadc, CW-450 down to 366
CW, HPxxEX Rekkas-339
CW, HPxxxEX DP- 352
looks like the close fierce dp fadc cw combos arent really worth using any more. for one bar you will do 18 less dmg
Do you guys think that landing a super in order to get big damage and a life lead to lame it out will be more important now? Even more so with a new move that seems easy to hitconfirm it out of.
I see no reason to go for dp fadc cw with the numbers mike posted. And personally I’m still not a fan of EX rekka (besides after risky cl.HP frametraps) so I will be sitting on a lot of meter.
I can’t wait until 2012 comes out, I can actually play the game again without worrying that fei will change in 6 months. Been on a long break, now I can finally get back into the fight! I’m excited that fei got some of those nerfs, making him more difficult to play and win with which will only make me a better player in the long run.
Hey Higgs, hit me up if you see me on. I’m trying to get back into this too–took too long of a break and I’m relying on a lot of AE-and-prior-versions tactics. I feel the transition to 2012 is going to be bumpier for us than others since we’re losing a lot here. Just going to take a lot more muscle memory training.
Looking at the changes, Fei’s become less of a mixed breed and has become more fine-tuned to be a footsie-type. No combos on cross-up CWs will be sadly missed and will take away a good amount of variety from Fei’s corner pressure game… Seems it’s still in the air about whether the last hit of CW will connect or if it just won’t allow further combos–that leaves me feeling a bit uneasy about using HK CW as a frame trap then. If CW was altered to not cross up as much then maybe HK CW might still be useful in the corner, but only time will tell on that.
Match-ups wise, I’m seeing more losses come through for Chun, Vega, Rog, and Guile. Chun’s fireball buff is going to be a nightmare for Fei, while damage buffs for the other charge guys are going to make already-challenging fights into tougher ones (coupled with Fei’s nerfs). I think Guile’s been pushed to a good point where he can be comfortable in keeping Fei at bay even without his meter gain from Super. The balance on these fights may tip to 5.5-4.5 or 6-4 at worst based on that, but I’m not seeing anything else change fundamentally…
Honda will be the same, barring that you can remember how to safe-jump/OS his headbutt. I’m not sure about Akuma being any worse than he is now, especially with his mix of buffs/nerfs. Except damage on Fei’s part, it seems like the same fight.
2012 is looking to be really interesting.
I don’t see the reason of removing clMP xx HK CW char specific combo, now that the damage on both FK and CW has been nerfed…other than that, I am fine with the changes. FADC into CW will still be an option: it deals a lot less damage but it’s still very safe in case we screw up the link after the first CW.
Yeah, I kind of liked that combo. It was like the one cool thing we had. At the risk of sounding like a down beat, Fei just seems a bit boring now. No Jab knock downs, no death combo, shit Ultra’s (always have been), damage now pretty standard even when burning meter. Online play is going to be wayyyy harder now I can tell you that for sure. I can already see my salt levels going through the roof when I hit a second rekka on negative edge or by mistake and I eat full damage or an Ultra.
The CW changes seem unnecessary, I can’t remember the last time I won a clutch match with a cross up CW, and now Capcom look a bit silly with the HK CW becoming nothing more than a hail mary option almost. I can see my own style having to revert back to being a turtle and slowly labouring away…
I’m not dropping him, but I’m going to explore more options and level up my Sagat. I already have a hard time beating good Chun’s and Bison’s as it is.
Ironic now I’ll be the one going on about the good ol days of Super.
Provided MK CW remained unchanged then Flamekick FADC HK CW still does more damage against characters where we get only 2 hits because 1st and 2nd hits do 35 damage whereas the MK CW’s only do 30 damage each.
^^good catch
HK CW will still have uses. it still allows you to combo after, still 0 on block, and still has a good hitbox on the first kick.
they just lowered the damage payout for a hit. landing a low jab into rekka after will be pitiful damage tho. haha
Yeah i was doing this last night to see what the damage would look like, lk.fk>FADC>lk.cw is only 220 down from the 260 we currently get. Good thing is all the cw’s give 3 hits on the characters who get the 3 hits so ultra can still be used but in all honesty it isnt worth it. At NYCC I asked Seth “why have 3 CW’s with the same damage output? Make the ex 140 so we end up burning 3 bars for big damage.” He agreed but said “nothing is set in stone.” Well we see how that turned out
It would be best to save meter and go for cr.mk>super or tenshin>cl.hp>super. We lost close to 100 damage points so now we have to figure out how to make it up. I see myself using forward hk>super a lot as i use forward hk a lot for corner pressure. I see more 5-5 against Fei because of these damage nerfs. I still believe he will win against many as again he has the ability to punish a lot of mistakes and moves on block.
Again we can still use cl.mp>mk.cw and the cw will get 3 hits leaving us at +2 for a counterhit or reset with a grab or tenshin setup. Im sure we will all hit the lab and figure out how to get some mixups with the cw.
I still don’t see him falling out of top 5, given how far Yun and Yang are falling, and C. Viper to some extent. He’s going to be worse than he was in Super, but so are most of the charge characters. They’re not being buffed up to what they were before. We still have yet to play it, but I still see Fei and Akuma as being stronger than most of the cast for sure.
well the one factor that kept him solid in all those charge character matches IMO was blow out damage. one command grab on someone down backing was like 360+. and to a lesser extent, fei could really keep his pressure on with those jab sweep combos. both of those things are pretty much gone. he can still command grab, but the reward wont be near the same.
that makes for a rough fight against characters who want to be away from you in the first place.
Jab-Sweep was fantastic for Balrog, and Guile. Between losing it and his damage reductions, I expect at least those two will be somewhat problematic again. We’ll have to revert back to cl.MP > cr.HK, which we typically would only get on a successful frame trap. His damage output also obviously helped put an end to attrition matches sooner.
I see him likely sitting somewhere at the tip of Top 10. Losing a tool or two, and damage reductions are going to hurt his comeback potential, we’re going to really need to horde our meter.