i think we should give this game a chance. sure, it plays with the base model of fighters and sure it looks to be very simple, but i still think it can end up being a good and fun game. i can see why people would hate on it, but i dont think that making a game that anyone can play will do anything but potentially help the genre grow more. Like I said, ive tried to get my friends in to fighters but they literally cant do the motions, and so they miss out on one of the coolest and rewarding genres. I think complex and hard to master fighters will never die, so we should welcome this with an open mind. It could be a great thing. Donāt know why thereās so much negativity here.
Thatās not what artstyle means. At all. Thereās a cohesive artstyle here, itās just that itās applied to in progress PS1 models
Iām not going to bash this game too much and I do like the character designs of Yomi, but itās something about outdoing other people with simplicity that bothers me.
While I understand that fighting games are niche and somewhat hard to get into without dedicated practice I just feel that lowering the bar isolates vets of the genre and often times just makes games more dull. I always just thought that making controls simple to flock in newer casual players was somewhat unproductive. If someone is willing to learn any game theyāll have to put time into it and if itās a casual player they generally arenāt going to go into any of these training modes, tutorials, or whatever video showcases thatās provided for very long and then the game starts to lose itās spark for them. After that they just jump into whatever āquick playā game they have and wonāt give it much time later.
Now for people who like putting more work into their fighting games wonāt even have too much to work and itāll get stale really quickly. Iām not asking for some late 90ās fighting game with giant movelists for every character but I do like to have enough wiggle room to do enough that wonāt boil down to a boring neutral game with like 4 BnB combos for each character.
Iāll still be willing to try it, but I donāt see myself being too into it even with āDeceptively simpleā gameplay.
On second glance, I guess youāre right, but I thought the stages looked really amateurish. Punch Planet has an art style that it uses effectively, everything looks the way itās supposed to look in that game, whereas something like the snow field stage in this gameās reveal trailer just looks like it was made in a single day. Something is missing from the stage but itās hard to say what. It just looks bland but it doesnāt look like thereās much you can add to it. I donāt see how more development time will make it look better.
being brutually honest Extra I did not play much but I remember the use of stances not being as greatly adapted to a wide range of use over the characters and the meter having 2 much on it from the cancels to ex to overdrive to super(which this game kind of made it work but generally ramming so much onto meter limits options and there was alot on here) leading to things such as supers literally just being a punish (but at least they have a bit of reason to show). Those are the thing I would pick out which the main problem with it all limited the unique things about this game shining which is why I think it got alot less attention then it deserved, great game and as far as it is concerned as a 2D fighter solid. Where Trajais is concerned there is alot of fine coming going on in every aspect of the game not just its gameplay but the whole shabang which is why I am so certain about it and they really have taken the right philosphies of game design to push it right and I see it in what they have shown so far.
I understand how important is to bring new players into the FGC, but I donāt think that making games like this will really help. Contrary to the common belief, motions and combos are the easy part of the fighting games. Spacing, AAāing, blocking and reacting to things is much, MUCH harder than throwing fireballs or performing a ground strings. This game goes further by removing the high/low mixup, but I feel that this will make more harm than good for two reasons. First, attack/throw is already a difficult mixup for someone whoās not used to FGs. Two, newbs donāt have the patience to just block and play a reaction based game. They want to press buttons and will lose to zoning/super armor anyway.
The reason why Smash Brothers is so popular among children have little to do with simplified motions. Of course, this helps a lot, but what really make people to play this game more than once is that there are many things to do in the game. You can play alone vs the machine, you can call up to 7 friends to play simutaneously, you can play the gameās story/arcade mode, you can play with the alternate game modes (coin/stamina), you can face more than one AI controlled opponents, etc. By the time a smash player decides to enter the competitive scene, he/she will already have many hours of gameplay and will have a good notion on how to play this game and this will help. Of course, thereās still a lot to learn in order to have a chance on the competitive side of the game, but this person already love it, so, this wonāt be a problem.
As much as I hate Mortal Kombat, I must admit that MKX does it right. The game have a good amount of single player content and this helps to bring people into the FGC. The amount of players that keep playing the game competitively is much smaller than the people that buy it just for the casual fun. But thatās a reality that we have to face. Very few individuals are willing to put time and effort into video games and no amount of accessible fighting games will change this.
What I want to say on this long ass post is that games like this one will likely to fail like Rising Thunder. Casual players will get bored of getting stomped and will not bother to learn tatics like tick throws and frame traps and veteran players will just skip it because is too simple for them. For me, the ideal fighting game is the one that have both single player content to casuals enjoy and learn while playing and deep gameplay that will keep veterans interested on it. I really hope Iām wrong and this game succeeds, bringing a lot of new players to the FGC, because I love fighting games and I really want them to grow. But Iām not having much faith on this.
Some real talk there. This is not a game that is trying to do some new or unique it is just taking the standard type of fighters and as I said before removing large elements from the game essentially making it less and less of a fighter altogether if they continue this route can we even call it a fighter. A I said there is a big difference between changing the control scheme using reductionist levels and simply just removing big elements of a genre you are doing absolutely nothing new in the latter being bad.
I will say it may be a bit cold to say rising thunder failed due to how it was being made simply because its production stopped for other reasons not due to something like decreasing popularity but this type of game will definitely attract a new strand of gamers rather then your FG players and crowd this I had said as well. You are definitely spot on tho zoroark otherwise except hating on MK u a silly 4 dat bun u fam UMK3 4 LYFE and MK universe 4 LYFE MY G MY DON SAFE!!!
Hey, newbie here. To fighting games, at least.
Iāve been a āserious gamerā for over 20 years now, even if my games of choice have been board games and miniature games more than computer games (not that I havenāt played more than my share of the latter as well). I believe Iām squarely in the target audience for this, more than ākidsā or ācasual gamersā. Iāve played fighting games, but not beyond the button mashing stage. Iāve never been interested in putting in the hours to learn complex special moves. Plenty of other games to hold my interest, like serious board games, or relaxing computer games like WoW, Mass Effect and recently Overwatch.
This, however, interests me. As a board gamer the mental aspects are much, much more intriguing than rote button pushing and training my reflexes to consistently perform specials. Iāve got plenty of patience to block and react if thatās what it takes, though. I read Sirlinās blog for his board game content (he has lots of interesting stuff to say about board games as well), and his descriptions of fighting games, of the hidden information/yomi/ read aspect, of zoning, spacing, of the r-s-p element of attack-block-throw looked seriously interesting. Something that looked like a very fun challenge. Then I played some random SF2 matches and itās all mashing buttons again. Whereās the interesting decisions, the reads? Behind a huge wall of rote execution practice, thatās where. Thatās not for me.
I tried a couple hours of the FS alpha, and already I feel like Iām in way deeper than Iāve ever been in a fighting game. For me, this IS the holy grail of fighting games. I think there are more people like me. Most of us will never āgraduateā to ārealā fighting games like Guilty Gear, but the chances are a lot higher once weāve gotten a taste of high level fighting games.
FS will appeal to ākidsā, yes, that are drawn to the spectacular moves they can perform easily. But the sceptics are probably right that it wonāt last. It might have a longer life as a beer and pretzels game for game night on the couch, because anybody can pick it up and start doing dragon punches or pile drivers. But long term, serious players will have a large contigent of people like me - long term gamers who have no interest in the execution aspect of fighting games, but who are drawn into the tactical aspect. And some of us might eventually give ārealā fighting games another chance.
Rising Thunder didnāt fail. Itās developer was brought out by Riot Games and they had them shut down the game to work on another project.
Admittedly my knowledge on the first game is limited due to me having it on hack system and was never able to get updater patch. As for style they donāt change how your character works fundamentally but your mechanics (reflection, Counter burst, Nullify attack, Gaurd cancel,overdrive). Their further distinguishes but style primary modify mechanics.
All option had their purpose and none overshadow over another. EX specials function as ubniversal AUB( universal alpha counter in extra). Emergency Mode as momentum shifter, Phantom breaker (supers) were your unburstable damage (except when opponent had 200%), and overdrive as Psuedo roman cancel that health regenerates with other ultility.
Hopefully you get interested in moving to other fighting games afterwards because execution is one of the biggest aspects that make the genre work. Fighters are about strategy and execution (footsies are also heavily execution based too so you wonāt be able to avoid it entirely), for pure strategy there are better options than fighting games.
Yeah, I exaggerated a bit. When I said āfailā I was thinking on how the game didnāt bring a lot of people to the genre, since the matchmaking was becoming more and more empty. I tried to bring new people to the game without success and I saw a lot of veterans of the genre bashing the game. For a game with simplified inputs thatās also free to play I expecteda lot more people playing it.
My enjoyment of rising thunder to be brutally honest was more to do with the fact they were robots lol.
As for PB use of each option was overshadowed by character rather then the elements itself even there is a little of that still. It would be too harsh to say it made the system linear but there were definitely set things to do with each character rather then the intended purpose that being a constant switch up between the abilities it was all a bit bloated I wonder if a better idea would of been to seperate the characters be fighting style as a class rather then whole switch around then again it would just be the same really just without something seeming wasteful plus of course I am sure there was an odd character that used it all so no idea what you would have to do there
I donāt think quality had anything to do with the game dropping off. Itās just the usual thing where something that isnāt a big name doesnāt get as big a following. The lack of offline certainly didnāt help.
Als for every āveteranā bashing the game, it seemed to be that there was also another who actually enjoyed it. There definitely was a subset of players who did enjoy the game. That said, I think thereās something to be said about the players who did appreciate the game, and those who didnāt. It seemed to me at least that people of similar age and/or background as Seth did enjoy the game. And most of the criticism about the game seemed less about the one button inputs, but of things like the hidden cooldowns, etc.
Me I loved the game. Chell was my favorite new fighting game character of 2015. Made me remember Old Sagat.
Ideally, the idea is to make controls themselves simple enough that you donāt need to sit and practice inputs before you can even begin to learn the fundamentals, while still keeping the tactics like frame-traps, footsies, oki and mix-ups intact. Which I think is a solid idea. One frame links and difficult inputs arenāt what separates a pro from a scrub. Itās the understanding of how to play the game itself. Iām pretty sure 99.99% of the people who post on SRK can do fireball/DP/super motions reliably at will, and yet some of us are way better than others, so obviously execution isnāt the main difference between a good player and a bad one (even if Guile loops and similar monster combos prove that execution definitely is a factor). From that standpoint, it makes sense that thereās no real point in having to do a motion for a fireball rather than just press a button.
The issue with this is that you still have to make the core game deep enough that people will be interested in discovering new tech. If we just look at a DP input in and of itself, it seems pointless compared to do the f, d, df motion when you could just press a button. But even ignoring the obvious issue that even if the motion is easy for a semi-competent player, it still takes slightly longer than just pressing a button, thereās also the issue of the motion allowing other tech to be discovered. Auto-correcting DPs and DP option selects are only possible because the motion is there. A lot of fighting game tech is a consequence of holes in systems existing, and are generally unintended by the developers (in the sense of them not knowing about it, at the very least). Even if you include complicated cancel mechanics and sub-systems, half the fun is people discovering weird shit to ābreakā the system, and your game kind of has to accommodate that. Hell, Iām fairly sure half the popularity of Marvel is because you can bust those games right the fuck up.
So while execution isnāt necessarily mandatory for a good, deep fighting game, I think there has to be some compensation for the fact that youāre losing out on the tech that comes as a consequence of having motion inputs. Also, I think the somewhat lukewarm reception for Rising Thunder mightāve been the all robot cast. The gameplay itself was solid, even if it felt like the mechanics needed a lot more tweaking. But while I like robots, some variety wouldāve been nice.
Now I know I have no idea what your talking about. But Iāll leave this discussion to PB thread or pm.
As for fantasy strike, going to just play the waiting game and see how it unfolds.
Itās easy to just look at this game on a superficial level and say what kind of āgoodā itās doing for casuals who want to get into FGs by simplifying the controls making it much easier to get into the game on a deeper level and thus wanting to get into fighters more.
The issue is that you completely ignore what even simple execution requirements do for Fighting Games. Bringing up the SRK Motion debate again, letās not even talk about the Option Selects or the Auto-Corrects. Letās just talk reaction time. In a game like Fantasy Strike where you only need one button for a special itād be absurdly easy to react to a jump, press a button and swat it out of the air. But in a normal FG, you need the DP motion. That travel time to do the motion also shortens the amount of time you have to react. Not only do you need a small bit of execution, which most anyone can learn with just slight practice, but you need the increased reaction time to reliably get the motion out fast enough to make the AA.
Timing is the biggest thing you remove by oversimplifying controls. Looking for the split second to get in around a zoning characters moves, knowing that little window you have to reliably go in on a charge character, being able to predict an opponentās thought process by the way theyāre moving, being able to fake out an opponent by the way you move. Those are nuances you lose. Nuances you learn inherently, without anyone actually teaching you the game.
Honestly, real talk, Yomi probably will end up teaching casual players how to play FGs better than Fantasy Strike itself will.
Thing is, you can always compensate for that in various ways, whether itās a Rising Thunder-style cooldown, artificially adding start-up or input delay roughly corresponding to the DP input, or simply by making DPs more like AA command normals. With the tech, itās harder to compensate. If you donāt have a DP motion, you canāt really option select with a reverse DP or make it auto-correct, since the move will either do it on its own when you press the button or not regardless of what you do. I think the most important thing for any fighting game at a high level is to have a system that gives players enough freedom to do stuff the developers didnāt think of, because if everythingās discovered before itās even released, the game is already āsolvedā and itās just a matter of memorizing everything.
Soz I did not make myself clear mate
Yeah, changes to execution donāt happen in a vacuum and they affect how the game plays. Even adapting the moves to have more startup or adding cooldown wonāt fix the fact that you can react much better with single button presses than with a more complex motion, that also limits when you can have the motion ready.
Here you will be able to DP from walking backwards and having a block ready, for example. Big change from having to let back inputs go with a traditional DP motion. Sonic Booms have fast recovery because you have to charge it, and you canāt also have a Flashkick ready with it on screen or walking forward. This variety in controls is lost with this setup. Option selects will be much easier with single button presses too.
The simplification doesnāt end with inputs though, you have only one normal button and only two specials, which extremely limits your options.
Unless thereās a solution to these consequences of simplified inputs (and lack of crouch) I expect the game to turn out extremely defensive.