Thelo tried to show with frame data and charts the difference between pre charging (b,f,b P) and normal charging (b,f P b), he wasn’t trying to prove one was better or doesn’t exist or anything. I also tried to analyze the difference with frame data, but couldn’t find any differences between the two charging methods either, on paper at least.
In practice tho, I still say pre charging is better than normal charging (b,f P b).
That’s right; when I said “didn’t exist” I meant that the supposed benefit doesn’t exist (probably a poor choice of phrase on my part). I’m curious though, why do you think pre charging is better?
My conclusion at the time was that “pre-charging”* is only useful when you can do the :f:
part in a situation where you wouldn’t be able to throw a boom anyway, i.e. during recovery of other moves, during blockstun, during a jump, etc. That way, you could front-load the time cost of moving the stick back and forth during a period of time where the stick movement isn’t costing you anything, and start charging for the next boom at the earliest possible moment after the :p: part, which could itself happen as soon as you came out of the state that prevented you from throwing a boom.
Meanwhile, “pre-charging” was actually a net disadvantage when just throwing a boom from a neutral state, since it takes you the same amount of frames to make the stick go :f: and back to :db: in both methods, but you end up throwing the boom later when “pre-charging” so you’re slightly disadvantaged.
Conclusion: for optimal play,
*The term “pre-charging” is actually pretty misleading here, since you’re not charging before you’re supposed to or anything, but apparently that’s how people call the [:db:]:f::db::p: method, so I bow down to peer pressure.
Getting eaten alive by Fei-long players lately! Lots of trouble beating out the chicken wing on reaction.
Yah, for some reason, even though I’m holding down back and waiting for the chicken wing, whenever i try to do a flash kick on reaction, i just end up standing up and blocking…weird huh?
Yeah I had that same problem when I used DJ. I guess I got faster or something playing after playing as guile a lot since that happens way less often to me now. The problem could just be lag though, like as soon as you see him in the air he is on top of you already.
I have the same issue when fighting fei and claw(corner mk jump in)! I’m not sure why but I found that holding up for a split second longer on the fk before going back to d/b charge helped the timing issue a bit. But still frustrating to get clobbered by the cw even though seeing it coming miles away.
And yes seems to be lag related.
is it just me or maybe the honda players i play but its almost impossible to escape his tick throws, his meaty then grab literally will put me into hit stun for a second or more, i mean honda has time to just casually walk up and grab me again while i can do nothing, i cant get any of guile’s rapid attacks out, forget about trying to reversal throw him, maybe lag has something to do with it or that I’m on PSN, i dont think its an execution mistake on me, i’ve been playing street fighter for 10+ years, i’m frustrated with losing 90% of matches to good honda’s because they grab me to death
That is actually the idea. Just be happy it isn’t st because honda does basically 100% damage to you if he grabs you.
It is your mistake, honda wants to throw you, you have all the tools to stop that from happening
It depends on the situation if you can reversal the throw or not. If it’s after a meaty attack than you can use a reversal Flash Kick against the meaty itself or the throw attempt after. After a meaty Honda is also close enough to be reversal thrown. So you can always stop him in that situation.
The only time you can’t stop Honda from throwing you is if he does a safe jump HK after an HP or HK throw and you block it. He can then throw you from his max throw range just as you recover from block stun and you can’t stop him (no time to stick out even a fast jab, out of your throw range so can’t reversal throw, lost down charge blocking the jump attack so can’t reversal Flash Kick). He can then keep repeating the loop until you reach the corner (though the jumping HK will sometimes cross-up after an HP throw on Guile). The only thing you can do to get out is take the hit on the jumping HK, though he can then follow it with a combo. Even if you get a reversal Flash Kick off after the HP or HK grab the HK is a safe jump if timed right so Honda can block and punish. I use that all the time on Guile (and DeeJay, and Chun-Li, and Dhalsim, and everyone else it works on) on XBL and PSN.
Good Honda players can utilize safe jumps, into another a st.jab or a tick throw. Since Honda’s throw range is greater than Guile’s, you basically cannot get out of this unless the Honda player messes up their timing on any of these setups.
As far as Ochio loops, your only way out is to either reveral throw or flash kick the meaty cr.jab. Other than that, a Honda that can negative edge the ochio will win out everytime. As frustrating as it is, this is one of Honda’s best ways to win what is largely considered to be a 7-3 matchup in Guile’s favor.
Since these situations are so lopsided in Honda’s favor, your best counter is to avoid being put in these situations in the first place, by relying on Guile’s dominant zoning game to keep the fat Sumo at bay.
me again, will someone please answer the following questions
i’ve seen muteki put together combo strings where he will do cr. short then sonic boom, it almost looks like he canceling a cr. short into sonic boom, almost as you would do with cr. MP or cr. jap into sonic boom. is it possible to cancel cr. short into sonic boom or are my eyes deceiving me? if so how is it done?
whats the command for Cr. Mp into super or for that matter standing whatever into super? lets say i want to do this combo jumping roundhouse into cr. Mp into super, whats the motion how about jumping round house into standing fierce into super?
in the muteki vs kurahashi mirror match it looks like muteki does hop kick into flash kick, is this possible, I’ve also herd you can do sabot into flashkick, how is this performed and what are the advantages, can you also do bazooka knee into flash kick.
how do you cancel a cr. short into flashkick, i can cancel cr. short into super is it done the same way? what if you have supermeter but dont want the super, is it possible to cancel cr. short into flash kick at that point
any answers would be greatly appreciated
You cannot special cancel off a cr.short. He just does a sonic boom immediately after a cr.short recovers, similar to how you throw out a sonic boom after a cr.forward. It just happens quickly. It’s a great attack string, since if you’re close when you do the cr.short, you can throw out a jab sonic boom, and then cr.forward x sonic boom. It’s nice to build meter, do chip damage, and catch your opponent twitching in-between booms.
After holding a down-back charge, move down, down-forward, press cr.mp, and quickly go to neutral and up-back, kick. It’s a very difficult combo to pull off. I’m not sure j.rh, st.fierce xx super is even possible, and I don’t remember seeing someone do it. It would require someone with extremely fast hands to be able to charge the super in time before you land. All you do is press st.fierce during the buffer for the super motion when you reach neutral, and then go to up-back with kicks.
It’s very possible. He’s kara-cancelling the hop kick to go into the flash kick. It extends the range of his flash kick by a few pixels, and Muteki uses this in the dhalsim matchup as well to punish fireballs at mid-range. I’ve only seen him do the sobat kick into flashkick, and not with the bazooka knee.
You kara-cancel the st.short into a flashkick or super. It’s similar to how Ken is able to renda-cancel his cr.shorts into his super. Guile is actually kara-cancelling a st.short into a super or flash kick, after he performs cr.short. You don’t need the st.short because you’re kara-cancelling it extremely fast in order for the flashkick or super to connect. If you do the cr.short hit confirm into super, if you don’t have a super, a flashkick will come out instead. Usually if you’re able to land the cr.shorts, you always want to go into the super for a very damaging hit confirm combo off of an ambiguous cross-up.
he’s renda cancelling off stand short, that’s why it looks so fast.
For cr mp xx super, you might want to hold down mp so that you don’t accidentally negative edge a sonic boom as you are going from :df: to :ub:. For st. hp xx super, charge :db:, then :df:, +:hp:, :ub: + kick, sort of like a reverse tiger knee motion.
[media=youtube]cFmV3Rd16lM[/media]
See 1:12.
so what would the comands be to renda cancel this, also if it hits will it combo (don’t think i’ve ever seen anyone combo it)
Plenty of top-level Guiles combo into it. cr.short x2 xx super is one of his best, high-damaging combos off of an ambiguous j.lk.
You just do a st.short before you go into the sonic boom or flash kick. For example…
Step 3 and 4 should be seamless, almost as if you’re going directly into the flash kick.
[media=youtube]2x5InUFoHfk[/media]
so this also works for cr.short into sonic boom
take a look at this muteki combo string (starting at 3:30),
how does he do cr. short into sonic boom
did he do cr. foward into sonic boom at the end (can it even combo with a fast sonic boom)
had dictator not been blocking which hits would combo?
That’s not a combo. It’s just an attack string. You just do a cr.short and then follow it up with a sonic boom. Do you mean how does he maintain charge while doing a cross-up? He simply switches to the other down-back position as he’s doing a cross-up. This way you maintain the back and down charge necessary to do his special moves. If you know numbered annotations for an arcade stick, he moves the stick from 3 to 1, as he crosses up Dic, so the game thinks that it’s as if he never left the down-back position.
You cannot combo cr.forward into sonic boom. It works the same as cr.short xx sonic boom. It won’t actually combo on hit, but it’s a nice attack string to push your opponent away, do a bit of chip damage, and builds meter.
Not that I’ve seen. I’m going to go home and test a point-blank cr.short kara’d into sonic boom, but I’m pretty sure it’s too slow.
Can’t be done unless it’s meaty.
Renda into flash kick should definitely be possible. To kara into the sonic boom would be super tight - like a 1 frame link.