So what are you suggesting? That you take away options from characters for the sake of “diversity?” Sure, you have characters that play a bit more differently than they already do, but at what cost? If one character has greater movement options, while another character’s movement options are weak by comparison just to make him “different” from the other character, then why would you ever bother with the character with less options? Unless it’s a really slow, powerhouse, high-damage grappler, there’s no reason why a character should have himself be essentially shot in the leg in the sake of “diversity.” You just don’t seem to grasp that characters can be diverse in a ton of areas other than their movement options.
And I’m still not seeing how characters sharing a single movement option (that they still perform differently anyways) makes such a impact on characters being homogenized that you can ignore everything else in the game that makes them different.
Oh damn, everyone in every fighting game can walk forwards and backwards. The cast is homogenized, these games are terrible, and everyone should stop playing fighting games forever!
because a single movement option that everyone performs differently, is just tiny and meningless considering how diferent play all the chars and how diferent are their normals, specials, supers; or the propierties of their normals and specials on clean hit or counter, etc, the way that they use the universal tools and their own tools.
you only want to focus in something that its just as walking and try to devalue the diversity of the cast just because they can air dash the same way that the can walk
Yeah, neither of you put forth reasons as to why these games are less or equally homogenized than their predecessors. You’re just backpedaling at this point in a vain attempt to defend your awful game. If you’re going to say these games are “non-homogenized” you might as well say they also mow your lawn. Both are untrue and meaningless, if you happen to be unsure about that by the way.
if you call backpedaling, prooving how wrong are you then yeah, we already stated why they are not homogenized, because the air dashes that you claim that do it behave completly diferent for every character making your stupid statement mute
plus that every char has an array of tools that work diferently for them that its not equal in any way to the tools of the other chars
right now you are just trolling, or perhaps prooving how idiot you are
Wow, you mean like in every fighting game ever? Now, if you want to argue that the normals and specials are of a larger difference between GG characters compared to the cast of ST go ahead. I would really love to see someone so lacking in critical thought attempt to quantify that. Especially when the importance of normals is marred in GG because footsies are completely shitted on due to the awful design choice to gasp give most of the cast an air dash.
whatever dude, im not gonna waste my time in a random imbecil like you
you already decided that you hate gg, and think that gg is utterly trash where the ground game is non-existent, even when its an important part of the space game like in any other game, the fact that gg is considered one of the most well designed games is beyond of your little mind, so whatever, stay free
edit
one thing, so by your logic all the chars that can fly on mvc2 are homogenized?
probably because all of them have acces to the universal tools of the game, cuz having acces to them homogenize the chars making the game utter trash
You called VS homogenized, then made an example showing it wasn’t. Just because the metagame is heavily biased towards offense doesn’t mean the game doesn’t allow for defense/distance options, in fact, I believe shoultz already laid those out in the old thread.
I didn’t give an example on how VS -isn’t- homogenized. I gave an example of why GG is more homogenized than VS. That isn’t to say that VS isn’t more homogenized than other games. For fucks sake, jedpossum quoted it directly.
You still didn’t answer my question though.
And comparing VH to VS is like comparing Kof to Cvs they’re pretty much two different games they just share characters. You would say this if you actually played the games.
So, why don’t you give us an example of a game that’s not homogenized, huh? And actually explain your choice instead of naming an example and expecting us to take you seriously without any evidence/support.
I’m assuming ST is your game of choice (correct me if I’m wrong), and I’m not seeing how “most everyone can walk, dash, jump and airdash” somehow is more homogenized “everyone can walk, dash, jump, and no one can airdash.”
Also explain why adding the air as a viable dimension for space is the most terrible thing you can do ever, and why the ground should be the only place the spacing game is restricted to. Why waddling back and forth looking for openings is the epitome of fighting game design.
you dudes are taking this all too seriously, but since im an ass im gonna add my stupid two cents.
What exactly is the general opinion on homogenization? Because it is pretty much all over every fighting game, EVER. Just to different extents. This is to be expected since the characters will obviously need some kind of common ground to keep the game fair. It does not HAVE to be air-dashing or anything near that. To mirC’s credit, I do enjoy games where not every character has such options, Melty Blood is a good example of this IMO. Also, in GG the characters were quite dirrerent. Instead of running, Slayer teleports and Ino flies, and Chip had a triple jump. This is just in terms of movement but it illustrates my point well enough.
Now SF is pretty homogenized imo, and for some that IS a problem, but SF has always been that way and most people just dont give a damn.
On a final note, dont argue with people over the internet… its stupid and so are you for doing it. You guys should really read some of the stuff you write… its retarded
Wow, really? They’re different games? Thanks for telling me. It’s not like I posted one of the differences between the games or anything. I wonder if that’s why one ends Hunter and the other Savior. Different games. Gee golly whillickers. As human beings, we’re totally lacking in functions that allow us to compare and contrast things to discern what is better and why. We should all concede and just say it’s “different” without acknowledging what makes it so.
“I can’t recognize how giving every character more of the same options is further homogenizing games.” What am I supposed to this? Are you for real? Right now you’re painting yourself into a dunce corner that would probably assert there are absolutely no similarities between shoto characters and a game featuring just Terry Bogard is not any more homogenized than the next.
Universal air dashing only ensures that footsies are heavily marginalized and adds more guessing to the defensive game. Neither of which creates depth, just takes it away. Air dashing is supposed to be an offensive option tailored to specific characters and properly balanced around it. Even the fuckers who made Vampire Savior realized this.
You should be leaving this type of shit on youtube comments, not here. Better yet, explain how reducing the importance of footsies or completely removing them altogether makes a game better.
Homogenization being bad is not intrinsic. It’s just often the things that homogenize the cast are poorly implemented. To give you an example, the Darkstalkers series added airblocking which allows projectiles like Sol Smasher and Killshread to be more dynamic in controlling the top off of the screen. Certain things were specified on airblocking like larger pushback and being unable to block ground based moves so footsies aren’t marginalized. All in all it allows the cast to be further diversified. Now lets take that same mechanic and give an example where it’s poorly implemented. The alpha series. In a mad bid to differentiate itself from previous Street Fighter games the developers decided to toss whatever universal mechanic in they felt like, including air block. Problem is, every projectile remains linear so it’s essentially in there for no good reason.
lol, your post is so full of stupidity but this part is the best
keep telling that to yourself to justify why do you suck so much on this games
and btw, the people behind VS are the same people behind GG, idiot
the fact that you cant see anything of the space game and how complex it is on those games, it only shows how little do you know about them, and since you decided to hate them based on ignorance before learning how do they work, there is no reason to try to change your mind, you just decided that they are thrash because they are different of what you are acostumed to play
Yeah, it was the same exact team. It’s not as if a few splintered off and created a worse game because they didn’t have the guidance of their betters or anything. Way to regurgitate shit you heard third hand.
You should probably stop posting. It’s obvious you realize what I’m saying is irrefutable so as always you’re putting at a “TOO DEEP” response. Heard it already bro.
and he wouldnt because he knows he is so wrong that he only post random stupidity saying that its irrefutable
and no mirc, i didnt ssaid that the games are too deep for you, since i dont know how idiot you are to know if the game is beyond your capabilities, i said that YOU siplmy decided to not taking your time in learn how the game works, denying the deep of the game based only on your ignorant point of view
He’s right though, you’re just taking it too personally.
Let’s take a fighting game with four characters. Blank slate. They all act differently. One’s fast, the other is slow, another teleports, and the last one makes clones or some shit. There, we have variety. They all act differently. Now, for whatever reason, they all get a gun. This is how they’re going to attack. All four of them. All the same gun, but with four differences. The fast one’s gun has two bullets. The slow one’s gun has 4 bullets. The teleporter only gets one bullet, and the clone guy gets three.
So now we have four characters who move / act differently, and who all ‘attack’ differently. Now, no matter what you say, even with two established ways of being different from one another, the fact that they all attack with a gun is homogenizing the game. This is a fact. That on its own is irrefutable. The rest is debatable.
Guilty Gear is a homogenized game. Everyone gets a launcher. Everyone gets the same defensive options. Most everyone gets the same movement options. This doesn’t keep the game from being balanced, but IT DOES HOMOGENIZE THE GAME. The same goes for VS, same defensive options (tech hit), mostly the same offensive options (follow ups). Both games have a GREAT deal of variety and a unique nature to them but stating they aren’t homogenized (which does do away with depth, whatever amount of it can be guessed at) is foolish.
