I’d also like to see tips for utilizing coward’s crouch kick in game. I know it’s +2 on hit, and I’ve seen top ranked FANGs use it on block after blocked cr.lps, but the 7f startup really makes me feel like it’s more of a novelty. Are there any real setups for this move? I’d guess after a blocked cr.mk/mp it’d push them away enough for it’d be safe to use it right?
If someone (probably Birdie) is using HP/HK normals, you can command crouch under them and punish the recovery. Hard to do, but it’s there.
sadly i can’t think of a bnb that ends with mp sotoja , but i basically use lp sotoja > mk - hk dash (+2 - + 1 on opponent quickstand) to get in or do the ambiguous jump hp / hk
and with mk dash they can’t mash 3f normals and you can stlp counter hit them or meaty grab them so they have to guess
You can connect mp lunge off of 1st hit s.mk.
Jab, s.MK(1)xx MP Lunge
S.HK, s.MK(1)xx MP Lunge
goona try this and add to my block string…
crouch lp ->crouch mk -> crouch mp -> coward crouch kick.
lk trap unless done needlessly close is safe to pretty much everything. chun / cammy / birdie super and chun ex ll hit
FANG is the probably at the moment at the bottom of the tier-list which is expected since he wasn’t part of any of the betas and good for those that like a challenge like me but without some serious nerfs from the toptier, or buffs to FANG there’s very few matchups that FANG is currently even matchup with imo (Ryu, Ken, Bison, Birdie, Rashid). These characters and FANG are pretty ‘honest’ without safe loops or endless frame trap loops, mistakes from any of these characters on offence without proper spacing ends up putting them into a disadvantage and allows for a counter (which should be the case for ALL characters imo).
Some matchups are really unbalanced at the moment for FANG (Cammy, Chun-Li, Dhalsim, Laura, Zangief, Karin, Vega). It’s basically not really possible to outplay someone from this list imo due to how much of a damage variance there is and or combination of their safe options constantly being able to loop vs FANG on account of no reversal options. Eventually, no matter how good one’s defense is with FANG, you can really at best only trade a st. or cr. lp after a blocking a safe vortex loop or at worst, FANG ends up eating a CH cr.jab > combo or gets into 50/50 situation.
Then there’s some slight disadvantage matchups for FANG which aren’t too too bad and probably 6-4 only due to sheer damage output difference (Necalli, R.Mika, Nash).
Overall I think with the next patch, FANG needs a combination of drastic damage output increase all around, health/stun decrease from some of the cheesier toptier characters, poison is a gimmick that needs a rework as it doesn’t really change the flow of a matchup much in FANG’s favour and sometimes actually ends up being a disadvantage (ie: Zangief), it’s actually disadvantageous in the Zangief matchup since it just builds up V-Trigger for free and gives him HUGE damage output potential for V-trigger but end up draining very little health. Not that many setup possibilities for FANG in terms of traps that can’t be nullified with quickrise unfortunately. If FANG was supposed to be a trap-based ambiguous setups character, I don’t think there’s much substance there…
An overhead that could combo if landed meaty could really add a nice dimension to FANG imo a-la Third Strike but this is probably not going to happen. Anyways, looking forward to the next patch to shake things up for FANG.
I’m still not convinced Nash is anything better than 7-3. He shuts down nearly all of your specials with trigger/super on reaction alone. Of course on is wakeup is very free, but the fact that he makes YOU approach is hilariously bad, and you are probably worse off since even his v reversal is better for escaping.
Also great point on the Gief matchup with poison building trigger. Why the hell does poison build trigger anyway? Were they thinking this through?
This isn’t a great point at all. Poison does unrecoverable damage. If you do 50 damage via chip, via gray health (which is recoverable, and thus not as desired), or through actual hits, Zangief will generate the same amount of V-Trigger as he would if you did that damage in poison.
Poison is in no way a disadvantage against Zangief, nor any single character in this game.
But if you’re forcing a Nash to consider v reversal you’re by proxy making your wall stronger by denying him vtrigger.
Stop trying to full time zone on him once he has the option. Watching brawl yesterday I learned that the same concept goes for rashid. Once he has one bar of meter ex dive kick blows up your zoning. Adapt yo
Is his V-Trigger fast enough to punish mp.balls cancelled into ex-command dash?
If it isn’t then worst case you spend one bar to waste his v-trigger, best case you get in.
That said approaching isn’t too bad for FANG, his command dashes are decent for going under fireballs to basicly say no to anyone else’s zoning game and the ridiculous range on j.HP makes properly spaced jump ins pretty good, not to mention that whilst I do feel Nash’s pokes are a bit better, FANG’s still feel good enough to get in through footsies as well.
Personally I’m still struggling more with Laura, her j.mk just feels like an absolute nightmare to deal with when done deep, got it trading with cr.hp and straight up stuffing j.hp and once it hits she gets to combo into a grab animation and run her electric ball oki .
I mean now I know about her super armor move she feels pretty free on wakeup, just need to find a way to snatch her out of the air consistently or at least get some big damage off the anti airs I do get to make them seem more threatening.
I’ve played alot of Laura’s and I don’t think she counters Fang,
She’s basically the this games Abel and when she gets going she gets going, and it works vs the entire cast,and when the player makes all the right reads on you she seems unbeatable, however if you guess right shed in very very bad spots
he’s definitely bottom tier; i think he needs better reversal options and perhaps a slightly, more rewarding zone game
Except lauras special forward ex move goes through every move Fang has, ensuring fang can never start up his special move zone, meaning its hard to land big hits on laura. Its a counter match to be sure, at least until interesting tech is found.
Are you talking about the ex elbow(bolt charge)? It has one armor and can be stuffed(almost clutch) with a cr.mk; also a very unsafe move to be throwing out of combos. The fact that she can command grab during our best reversals is what makes laura frightning
You have to treat this move like a DP, its unsafe and it cost Meter and can be baited and punished,
One thing that’ll improve the zoning game over time is our ability to max out the damage follow ups whenever they are tagged with trap or balls. If they’re hit in the air they’re put in a juggle state and on ground they’re in hit stun. A lot of us may tack on a sweep during the latter but I feel we’re leaving a lot of damage on the table.
The only thing I can reliably juggle off any anti air balls or EX traps is with EX lunge and a lot of the time it hardly feels worth the meter for the seemingly random amount of hits or damage the juggle gets. I heard LP lunge can juggle too but I’ve never got it to work. What else juggles?
As a slightly related topic I’ve been really worried about the state of FANG once people realize how unsafe and straight forward a lot of his pressure and setups are.:
I get a ton of mileage out of blockstrings into LP balls which is stupidly unsafe from most of the cast if they have something that moves them forward through you (Necalli Disc/ Spiral arrow) or just hit you with a non-canceled quick normal to tack on damage (A cr.mp I use in the mirror.)
I also also get damage out of out of traps into dash setups on knockdowns that I fear wakeup grab probably beats most of the time or at the least wake up reversal beats every time.
Any pressure starting with a blocked ST HK seems near useless against someone with a 3 frame jab who realizes they can trade with you after it and there’s nothing you can do as a followup that beats it. Could we backdash after ST HK then attempt a whiff punish? I don’t know every option just seems bad if they understand the frame data.
I do a lot of borderline and unsafe lunges canceled off CR.MP and raw in the mid range. Some people realize how to punish them but a lot of people don’t understand the spacing is important so 90% of people don’t punish correctly or will try and sweep punish a safe one and I in-turn get a punish on their blocked sweeps. Once people realize the spacing I feel like lunge is going to be massively dangerous to use because of how minus it can be if slightly spaced wrong.
Anytime you see a dash from FANG just do anything and it will beat it. Even if it’s ex dash FANG pretty much has to go into grab or ST.HK to get any worth while damage it’s not like he can EX dash over then do a LP block string or LP cancel that would be worth the meter really at all.
These are just some of the things I’ve been talking over with some local guys as we realize the limitations of our FANG play so far. I mean this is all expecting the other person can exploit it but if the other person has experience I really don’t get away with any of these things anymore at all. What do you guys think of the future of what I feel is a lot of FANG staples right now?
Everything is spacing. You can work safely with lunge as long as you understand spacing.
ultimately it comes down to conditioning your opponent. Lp ball up close will be punished up close especially naked. It’s only viable if you make the right read, and just like a lot of week 1 shenanigans you can’t rely on it. You can setup trap before hand to catch certain limbs (some limbs ruin trap up close though like chuns f.mp) but you always have to pay attention to their options.
same thing goes with traps on their knockdown. Cross up dash is not the only thing you can do on their wake up. There’s regular dash into block string/throw, lk dash for similar results, the left right mixup with medium dash, jumping, setting up ball offense to add another layer of mixups. Just like with any other character you have to watch out and bait reversals.
On characters with 3 frame jabs c.mk and crouch~k become much more important. C.mk also lets you walk back to punish jabs or throw whiffs.
Don’t always go for HK after command dashes, it’s 12 frames so you’re giving them all the more time to interrupt. Jab and throw will get some mileage even if the block string gives you momentum.
Lunge is unsafe, stop doing it in block strings. This goes for most of the cast where special moves can only be safeish at tip range or by burning meter. Hit confirm! Some folks use it in footsies because at tip range a lot of characters can’t get a great punish l, haven’t really utilized it myself.
I’ve seen certain things juggle after a ball or trap hits an airborne opponent. J.mk, crouch~k, regular lunge, ex lunge, balls apparently hit after ex trap. We’ll need to test all this out.
His raw damage is small, but poison+white damage helps supplement it. This is more apparent in longer rounds. He is not perfect, but there’s still a lot in the dark about him.
And meter comes hand over fist in this game. Never be afraid to use it