While I agree on the parent bit, the site has nothing to do with what makes people cheat on their spouses. If a partner is at the point where they’ve wanted to or have cheated, a lot of issues passed by and went unresolved. Sure there are some men and women who are scumbag nor am I condoning infidelity, but the cheating is just the conclusion to a whole lot of stuff that went unaddressed.
Why? Because of the friction between the parents? Why does that friction exist in the first place? I’ll shoot: fucked up divorce laws that make it impossible for a person to come out and say they’re done with a relationship.
As long as cheating is the better option, then there will be cheating, plain and simple. And children should never even be exposed to their parent’s sex life. You know how long childcare experts say you should wait minimum before letting your children meet your new girl/boyfriend? two years. Most people don’t even date that long. But children of all age should ideally be completely left out of those matters. Even between their parents. It’s literally not their business nor is it appropriate.
But please, continue injecting your personal moral preference into the matter.
i think this just goes to show that humans are not / were never wired for long term monogamy. period. dan savage has written a lot of good stuff about this. plenty of books by evolutionary biologists, aka Red Queen, also confirm this. The fact that so many people use this is telling. Humans are wired for serial monogamy at best, and evolved this way so that parents would stay together long enough for the child to grow up to become self sufficient. Trying to shoe horn in monogamy is not realistic. This is why even in the old testemant there was polygamy. Even when christians came along and did the monogamy thing and the feeling shameful about sex, “devout” christians still had mistresses. Even during the prudish victorian era. Hell even books such as scarlet letter were written because this kind of shit happened. The latest Duggar lulz is just proving the point.
(Yeah, as horrible as it is to say, the site is just an enabler of problems, rather than the cause of it.)
Sigh. I knew upon seeing a certain poster’s name exactly what he was going to say, but I’ll briefly humor him before I go on my walk.
A better question to ask is this one: Who says there’s a correct, singular frame of morality beyond to begin with? If there is one single correct frame of morality, then why did this person or group of people get to decide what it is if it’s not an innate thing within humanity?
A better question to ask is this one: How does one define “wrong” in the first place? Can one define “wrong”? And if so, then why is one defining “wrong” that way?
I didn’t ask a question until now, actually, as should be made evident by my lack of question mark use. I was just explaining to Manx why no one questions marriage, though I forgot to point out that people also love the myth that humans are inherently strictly monogamous being when they’re not. Capable of monogamy, yes, but strictly monogamous, no. It’s just that even with all the clear evidence to the contrary around us, questioning marriage on that front would also undermine that illusion of it’s supposed inherent sacredness given how many people look at marriage as a religious institution rather than a strictly legal one.
That’s nice. No one asked you.
If that’s what you believe, then I honestly don’t care to try to change your mind for various reasons since unlike you I don’t attempt to proselytize people.
Given that a lot of the “fucked up gender and sex politics” I was talking about were/are part of religious practices, yes, it would still be an issue to at least some degree.
I’m not going to act like atheism is the panacea for everything–I never have for the record. I’m just tired of people not questioning things one of way the other or acting like their god(s) are the best and only thing.
But, please, do go on with what is either your thinly veiled trolling or genuinely naive, pseudo-intellectual moral posturing. I’m not going to drag the thread down by replying to you again either way.
Perto: while the site isn’t the root of the problem it is still an enabler.
What point is it that you are trying to make, that it is ok to just cheat on your spouses? I understand your last point, is it wrong for me to speak my views against cheating on the person you are married with? Quit trying to push for a religion debate, man.
anybody who got the file with city names to load, you able to look up my hometown and gimme a list of names?
How about the traditional values of beating children, beating your wife, slavery, public-led capital punishment (stoning), eye-for-eye punishment, etc. And I’m not simply taking from The Bible, nor am I picking on it. We abandon values all the time in favor of those that further our collective society in better ways.
You’re correct that you should have a partner who respects you as a person. But that traditional notion of extreme respect, in my opinion has actually suffered due to the heavy traditional value that is placed on marriage and it’s social function. It’s difficult to respect someone that you resent, and let me tell you, resentment is heavy in marriage. Marriage breeds resentment.
I’m all for traditional sex roles as defined by the average male/female brain. you’re preaching to the choir. I understand all that and how men thrive on power-seeking and women thrive on support-seeking, etc. Traditional values were originally intended to support the Human perception of these now scientifically-proven facts. It was a good model for it’s time, but now it no longer serves this purpose. We have science to prove those facts to us now, so the need for socially-dictated reinforcement of them no longer exists.
Trying to cling onto the traditional is a reverse slippery slope that allows old ways to remain old and for old thinking to remain fixed in that old mode of thinking, which means that all the same old types of people who have always held positions of authority and the most attention in society will also remain that way too. Science is all about proving facts, but it’s useless if its findings are never allowed to influence anything significant.
What I want to know is where do you expect the male sex drive to go to once society has diluted the availability of females that exhibit the qualities you mention? How does that coincide with the “no hymen” mantra? Especially if anal sex is considered a sin.
Can you please answer that for me?
I didn’t bring up religion once. You did. All I want to know is why you believe that a parent’s private sex life should automatically make them unfit to remain a parent. What evidence do you have to back this?
Oh, and for the record, I don’t think it’s cool for children to live under the roof with any parent that is unable to have the happiest life possible for them and both being hopelessly stuck in a bad marriage and being devastated by divorce can do that to a parent. A cheating parent, while it might definitely affect children, should not at all by itself be a determination of that parent’s worth to their children.
You think that it is false that children do get affected by the actions from their parents, there is something seriously wrong with you if you are asking for evidence of that? You even inserted the word “might” as if that is an undeterminable possibility.
A parent cheating on his/her family is complete betrayal, you don’t put your own kids to feel betrayed by someone who is responsible for their lives. What cheating does is that it makes the family feel as if they are of not high value (when they should be) in their own homes. What children will witness is first hand betrayal of the people who are the most closest to them, they will also experience the pain of their other parent who will likely be effected mentally, emotionally, financially and maybe physically because of the act. You sound like you got some issues your head.
BTW, you were actually bringing religion into it, just check out your first post. Don’t try to fool anybody with that.
While I loathe the site for facilitating adultery, the bulk of the responsibility lands on the adulterer(s). Some may have been tempted by the site when they wouldn’t have been otherwise, but I don’t believe that was the majority.
As for religion playing a part, I don’t see that either. Cheating doesn’t uniquely stem from behavioral restrictions due to religious practice. It can be a cause, but far from the sole one.
Authority is not innately evil. Which is why “Spare the rod spoil the child” is a thing.
But “beating” is an extreme as well. The issue is having the correct amount of disciple.
No disciple is just as corrupt as the extreme.
Nothing is perfect.
But doesnt mean you could let your impulse control you either. Or have to be come in full agreement with everything either.
Which is why relationships work out better with an authority (Male) and submissive (Female) roles.
In the cause of extreme roles, I’ll assume your referring to battered wives.
Which is the issue with the male that doesnt act in a respectful demeanor. (Ie: Drunkards, adulterers)
If marriage is defined as uniting a male and female under an authority (god) to procreate, then yes. It’s still necessary as having the authority that judges you how you lived adds more to respect the bonds of “Until death do us part”
Anything other then that is why the AM slogan of “Live is short, have an affair” is even acceptable to be advertised.
You assume I think the reverse back to traditional values is wrong. I actually think society was a lot better back then.
I’d rather have the old people who have high morals be leading then these lazy cuckolds or f*gs who think life is only about getting their genitals to feel good.
I always assumed science is the study to disprove ideas until you cant. Then it becomes truth.
Anything other, would just be a means to push agendas then actual truth.
Your thinking of the wrong train of thought.
As in, Putting emphasis on sex rather actually trying to be a better person.
But to answer. Thats life. Tough luck.
You cant always change what happens to you, but you can always change how you react.
You could bite the bullet and risk that involvement or choose not to.
.
LOL, haven’t had popcorn in a while, any good flavors to try? 30+ million people too! I wonder how many of those are just in the US.
Of course! It has an effect on the entire family. Or it might not. I know families where either spouse have cheated and everything went right on back to normal as far as everyone else was concerned. That’s exactly how it should be. You have your 3 examples of families affected by cheating and I have mine.
How does cheating betray the children? I’m not talking about cases where people have entire families that they keep secret from their spouses, since cases like that are rare. I’m talking about the simple act of having an outside relationship, regardless of how intense or serious that relationship might be. Doing that is not tantamount to betraying one’s children for the simple matter that your children shouldn’t be privy to their parent’s sex lives regardless. If mommy and daddy break up, then that’s that exactly what you tell them and keep it to that. They don’t need to know anything else beyond that.
If anything, exposing the cheating spouse’s transgression to the children is the abusive thing to do. In my parenting class we learned that even as adults children should not have to learn about such things. That is best kept between the parents and others directly involved. You are wrong, according to professional childcare experts.
Certainly it may seem that way, but why exactly should that be the case for everyone? Some people are capable of caring for their entire family even while frequently being away from the home. Celebrities and high-ranking government workers come to mind and were even used as examples in my parenting classes. Using the words “should be” or “supposed to” pretty much imply that you know what’s best for a family more than it’s own members.
No they don’t. Not if you don’t tell them about it. And no, children are not entitled to know everything that goes on in the household.
As for emotional suffering, that’s part of being a parent and you cannot let that get in the way of your ability to parent. Your relationship with your partner or spouse is just that, a relationship with them and not your children. Your children share a different relationship with each parent. There are things that rightfully should be kept separate from both relationships and one of them is infidelity/sex. You don’t share that with your children at any age.
I think you’re highly influenced by this common type of child abuse (cause that’s what it is) where the children know every detail about everything that goes on in the household. I see this a lot in black families and it’s wrong. It’s abusive because it sets either parent up for parental alienation and the children lose out on a relationship with both parents as a result. One with the parent that supposedly “betrayed” them and another with the parent that is supposed to shield them from being hurt. You don’t take a child’s parent and portray them as a monster because that lowers the child’s self worth and sense of value. If that child came from that parent and you call them a monster, then you are calling that child one also by proxy. That is typical of a child’s reasoning. They think that if they love their parent who has done something wrong, then they are also wrong. So basically you dick a child out of a relationship with their parent and that’s abuse.
Do you understand now?
That was a completely different post because you had even made the post that I replied to. I brought up religion briefly and then dropped it. I never once brought it up in relation to any post that you have made.
Excusing infidelity due to human nature always makes me think…What part of your nature mandates that you get married in the first place?
If you can’t be for one person, for all time, don’t get married.
I think you are lying about knowing families who just went back to normal, every single psychological related site would state that cheating will affect the children and it is not normal for kids not to feel anything at all from it. Just stop, you are coming off as a horrible person.
How the hell can you even ask how it betrays the child? Manx, you have serious mental problems if you think that is doubtful. You can’t just have an outside relationship when you have your own family, raising and caring for the family should be the most prioritized job of a decent person. It’s not just about sex lives, please use your head.
Please list these childcare experts, i have not heard anybody make a small deal on parents having sex with outside of their marriage.
Oh no, it’s not “may seem” it’s definite. Broken households will effect the kids, you won’t find any site or book that will state other wise. Now you are trying bullshit me by saying you are taking parenting classes? WTF kind of classes teach that this topic is clearly subjective? It’s either you are completely lying about this just to boost your ego on this horrid argument of yours or your classes are being lead by garbage teachers. You’re argument is like saying parents should not be obliged in being faithful to their own families and this shows how horrible and distorted your point of view is. You are also trying to put legitimacy of your case with making lies.
This is unintelligent. With the amount of emotions that will be going on from the parent who has been cheated on, the fact that one parent isn’t regularly present or giving the right amount of presence, they will see it. “It won’t hurt them if they don’t know”… that is not even worth arguing and from this point on, because you are going to force your shit to be the intelligent point of you, you are not worth arguing with.
If you think cheating on your family is subjectively wrong, then there is something wrong with you. You must be a sad/negative douche of a person to minimize the importance of family. WTF are you on Manx?
I think there should be restrictions and laws for marriage. I think people who spam-marriage, like the celebrities who got married more than 5x should be banned from getting married. All they are doing is making children who will grow up parentless (which can lead to kids being juveniles) and the massive amount of money they’ve used for their repeated shit ceremonies could of been used to help feed the poor or something.
Look at the Ghetto areas in the US. Most of those “thugs” grew up in broken households and those kids who have no good role models in their homes will end up seeking role models outside. They will grow up with no idea about treating other people right because that’s what they’ve been exposed to in their own homes.
The Bible doesn’t say “Spare the rod spoil the child” It says that a parent who doesn’t discipline (and yes, it did mean corporal, or physical punishment) hates their child. Not disciplining at all is a fallacy of extremes. That’s not what I said. I just wanted to bring out how flawed the traditional value of “beating” a child (or anyone) is now outdated and almost universally recognized as wrong.
Now where did I imply that marriage should be perfect? And no, what I meant by “extreme respect” is the notion that the only good woman is a virgin. That’s pretty fucking extreme and I hope you’re exaggerating here. I didn’t say anything about battered wives. With regard to authority, the best relationships are those that require no authorization. It’s two adult Human beings for crying out loud.
I don’t see how you can give people the freedom to disbelieve God and yet still hold them subject to his imaginary authority at the same time… what about Atheists who wish to get married? Are they still under God’s authority? In my opinion the Ashley Madison slogan espouses one pretty good argument for cheating. And against traditional marriage… Life is short… unless it’s in a shitty marriage.
The high morals to stone a rape victim who doesn’t scream loud enough? Or for sowing the wrong kind of seed? Or for switching religions? Or for blasphemy against his King? Yeah, society was so much better back then…
As a gentile, I’m very concerned with how all of us, Jews included, feel.
No science doesn’t clam to prove or disprove anything. All it can do is formulate assumptions based on empirical evidence. You don’t have to push an agenda that is universally regarded as true.
How is sex the wrong train of thought when we’re talking about marriage? We’re talking about infidelity here, too. Sex and the drive to procreate is what drives marriage and infidelity. Trying to suddenly eliminate it from the conversation simply because the truth regarding it weakens your position is yet another fallacy. You’re the one who said “No hymen; No diamond.” Are you still gonna stand by your statement that sex is the wrong train of thought?
Now you know that’s not answering my question. Are you really gonna just stay celibate because you can’t find the right woman who’s still a virgin? If you say no, then you just contradict yourself, but that’s okay since you already did by saying sex was on the wrong track when you had already judged all non-virgins unsuitable for marriage.
Do you even listen to the stuff you say? Now, please do yourself a favor and take 10 minutes out to watch this. You don’t have to take anything away from it, just watch it and consider. If you don’t like it, then just continue on like you would have had you not watched it. It’s just 10 minutes.
That sounds wonderful except for the people who stand to lose their entire support structure if they don’t get married and choose to have sex and/or live with someone outside of marriage. That’s a tough decision to make.
Or I suppose they could simply remain celibate for the rest of their lives. That sounds completely natural and in no way contradictory to the sex drive that God instilled within us. /s