Any hard/deep fighting game can be good to casuals, look at Tekken, its hard but it sells a lot and people just punch and kick their friends in it. So theres no point in making a game shallow to appeal to casuals. A dev just has to make sure that it doesnt get the stigma that Virtua Fighter/KOF/Older Guilty Gear games have as hard games. Hell people think Super Turbo is really hard to play because they cant do srk’s in it, but it doesnt have as many characters or system mechanics as Ultra SF4.
@xiceman191 I agree with you 100%. Most gamers today want more bang for their buck which is fair. And fighters have arguably the least amount of content of any genre of games. Especially Capcom fighters. Like you said though MK was always in the right direction even before MK9. I remember playing the hell out of Armaggedon and Deadly Aliance, because there was so much more than just fighting despite the gameplay being meh. And fighters like Blazblue always are step in the right direction with its fleshed out story mode. If Capcom were to add more content to Street Figyter like NRS does with MK, SF would probably be untouchable. Like one thing they could add is a beat um up mode, like Final Fight with SF characters or that really cool mode from SFA3. And for the love of God can more fighters start adding a damn playlist mode to listen to stage and character themes and the game’s theme songs? I want to put on Darkstalkers Ressurection and listen to Morrigan’s theme from MVC1 dammit!
That goes both way. any simpe/shallow fighter can be good to an advance players,
@BB_Hoody You mean like Tekken Force? That was actually fun, Scenario Campaign is a different matter though. And I find myself going back to MK too, so much stuff in there. Heck, BlazBlue pulled me in because it was funny. Came for the laughs, stayed for the gameplay. And yeah, salt probably drives people away too, but that is something the developer cannot fix, personally I feel if you can’t handle losing 20 times in a row to a great player then you probably won’t stick with these games. However, things like an improved training mode, and challenges like I suggested are things that need to be put in. And the easy mode input settings removed. They do nothing to make someone a better player.
stop doing qcf and tap 2 then tap 6+ input, there are no diagonal inputs in nrs games.
But if the gameplay is shallow and lets say a novice fighting game player can beat an experienced fighting game player at a game 50/100 times Id say that game isnt worth playing.
I don’t see the problem here. But I’ll respect your view point and leave well enough alone.
if a novice can beat someone experienced than the experienced person just hasn’t developed their skill beyond novice level. fighting game concepts like pattern recognition and spacing are universal gaming skills, really life skills if a person has it they have it. Don’t hate on a new nigga shine cause he got it like that.
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Then hes a fraud and not experienced.
Ok and if you’ve been in the scene long enough you know there are plenty of OGs that are frauds and newcomers that are talented.
Then theyre not the type of player Im talking about and they need to get MORE experience to become good.
Honestly I bet you could make a fighting games that had 2 buttons and people would still think the game is too deep and broken for them, its just an excuse to not lose at a video game and scar their fragile egos. Hell DiveKick pisses people off when they lose cause of how simple it is.
No one demands anything. A new player has the exact same execution level as their friend who also just picked up the game. Neither has explored the game, neither has mastered even the basics and they’ll both grow with the game as they play it.
Problem arises when said new player tries playing online for the first time and faces someone that’s been playing FG’s for 10-25 years. The Player Points system should have been used to tier these players so people don’t play outside of their level much. Match new players with new players and old players with old players. And as the new players get better they’ll start facing against the older players. But all of a sudden these new players feel expected to master the game to even compete with these older players. Expert mode/training missions really doesn’t help that feeling. All they could do is make the new player feel how absolutely behind he is and how much catching up he has to do.
Perhaps the games unlock missions/trials as you satisfy requirements in the actual game. Kinda like how 3s and Vsav kept track of how many fireballs you threw and stuff and your combos. The game would then unlock trials or missions that correlated with what you’ve done in the actual game.
Contrary to what many claim, fighting games are actually extremely accessible. Just pick up the controller, mash some buttons, and you’re playing. There is no barrier. No need to read instruction manuals, no special tests that you need to pass. Even little children play. As for performing every possible move, or beating experienced players, well, that’s going take some practice, as with every other game.
I can see how some prefer more focus on decision making skills rather than execution, however. It’s a valid preference. But the thing is, pressing buttons is fun, and pressing complicated combinations even more so. Just ask piano players. Let’s say you could do shoryuken>FADC>ultra, or EWGF+juggle with just one button press, would that not take away from the experience?
This.
this is why I am finding this thread and conversation moot. Their plenty fighters out their that fills certain nitche. Want decision base fighter? look at UNIEl,Darkstalker revenge, Battle Fantasia, Samurai showdown 2 DoA5LR, Yatagarsue. If prefer execution game i think Sf4, UMvC3,F/UC, Vampire Savior, Chaos Code,JJBA, Gundam vs.
Their even game that fall in between. GG series, KoF series, Mk Series, Melty series, AH series. Smash series.
as i been saying execution barrier is individual issue. Heck I can;t even play 90% of the mention execution fighter but I wouldn’t change them, instead Ill find that game that I’m competent at currently and revisit that game when I feel I’ve leve’ed up enough.
Execution is part of what makes someone good at a video game in the first place. Why dont people understand this?
The thing is that people are trying to put less emphasis on the execution part so that the strategic/mental aspect of it becomes more obvious. There are some things that have are just bad design in general (just frame moves and other wacky convoluted inputs) but since you have to use your hands, there’s always going to be some execution stuff which may or may not be hard to do.
On top of that you have designers who know the general type of gamers who are attacted to fighting games and try to make characters to please all of them. When you do that, though, you end up with shitty things like C.Viper who requires you to learn things that are exclusive to her. We can argue all day and night about the merits of easy vs hard on various things like combos, reversals, inputs and it’ll general end up like: inputs should be easy to do, combos could go either way, reversals are tricky since 3 frames is too much and 1 frame means that not a lot of people will be getting them.
But yeah, stupid hands.
1 frame links are bs though, especially when you play online or on ps3 or on a large hd tv instead of a crt/benq/asus monitor. its so stupid capcom put them in deliberately to appeal to the hardcore players, when people those players just found them on their own. when something is that strict and a number of none execution factors can mess you up it shouldnt be a requirement.
I don’t think seeing things happen, but not knowing how or why they happened based on the random sequence of buttons you pressed is really very accessible at all. I think the appeal to these people is being able to play their buddy 1 on 1 (and pretend you own him despite neither of you really knowing what you’re doing), and that works in spite of fighting games being almost completely unintuitive.
It doesn’t bother me personally too much. I think learning combos and such is fun, but I get where people are coming from that don’t dig it.
Well if this hypothetical player of yours cannot make the connection between him pressing right and his character walking to the right, or him pressing punch and his character performing a punch, then the problem lies with his cognitive capacities, not with any lack of accessibility or intuitiveness. Really, it can’t possibly get more intuitive than this.
You might think at this level they are ‘not really playing’ or something along those lines, but you would be wrong. Fundamentals come into play, even at this most base level where neither player even knows how to perform a fireball motion, and the better player will get the upper hand. Just look at Divekick, it’s even simpler still, and a complete game nonetheless, with winners and losers and everything.