Quoted for truth.
The idea that Guilty Gear would not be at EVO next year in 08 saddens me. Hearing comments like “GG’s community is too small” or “GG’s community doesn’t run enough of their own tournaments” or “The GG scene is weak” is possibly the most ignorant statement I’ve ever heard and makes me want to pull my hair out.
The scene is STRONG and STILL GROWING. I took a 2007 hiatus from competitive GG to focus on school and graduation and landing a job in the game industry. Now that I’ve accomplished those goals, Im going start playing again to go back to supporting this community the way I did in the past (RC,vids,tourneys,etc.)
There are many people like me who support the community the way I do as well. Cue throws his own tournaments (O-squared), Alphakami is throwing his SERII, many people contribute on dustloop.com and provide translations, frame data, etc. videos and more.
Every year at MWC in Chicago, GG has the MOST entrants out of every game. Almost every Ohio Tournament (not including the ones I’ve thrown) GG has the MOST entrants out of every game. I’ve thrown GG ONLY tournaments and the numbers still beat out alot of peoples tournaments. The GG scene in the midwest is strong, and will continue to stay strong throughout 2008. The scene is also strong in different parts of America as well, not just the midwest.
While the fact that GG is always constantly getting updated can be painful for tournament organizers in America, on the upside it is always bringing something new to the table to bring the best competitive form of 2D fighting to the players, much like a PC game is updated and patched constantly to bring the best form of compettion to the players. Thus GG is the newest and best fighter out there, where as other games have not changed at all in the last 5 to 10 years. With GG getting an american console release, even more people will begin to play it.
I’m not looking for an arguement, but it seems alot of those who play only capcom (3S/ST/Marvel/CvS2) have generally a dislike of Guilty Gear for unfound reasons. I don’t know why people don’t like the game or say GG players only play one game. Lots of people enter multiple events and play GG as their main game. Hell, Kenji and I came from playing Tekken and switched to GG. Why do people look at the Guilty Gear community as a BURDEN to fighting games???
To me, Evo is the last man standing out there for a national level event for 2D fighting games, and to me GG is the essence of a 2D fighter and is always new and updated and exciting. Competitive gaming in the mainstream only looks at 3D and established communities and what not, to me EVO is the one national level tournament that ignores these mainstream establishments and provides a national level event for 2D fighters. By removing GG you would be taking the first step in removing 2D fighters from the eye of competitive gamers. 2D fighting games are already non-mainstream enough, to remove it from a national level event would just strike even a bigger blow to 2D fighters.
When we live in a age where you can get on the internet with your phone, a billion cyber cafes, and ordering things online has never been easier, dont expect to be lazy when signing up for Evo.
Emergency registration is done for, so get your act together for next year. This is your 350 day warning.
Stick sharing is also not an excuse to be late anymore, if your name is called and you dont have a stick ready to go, you will be DQed just as fast. This is your 350 day warning to get a job and buy a stick if you dont have one.
Have faith. When has Evolution NOT listened to its community. Remember what Trag originally posted about the games was based on a prediction of how the communities will shift towards games. Even if it doesnt shift the way Trag said that doesnt mean that Evo wont do whatever is necessary to have the best fighting game tournament possible. Which would include listening to thier communities. So dont fret… Its just punches and kicks guys.
EDIT: ^^Good stuff. Should probably just sticky a thread about it in the Evo forums now. If you already havent. Then just keep it open for updates on how and when pre-registration is going to happen. Nothing you dont already know :).
:encore::encore::encore::encore::encore:
Yes!
For real… buy a damn stick. WTF.
I’m heavily in favor of keeping cvs2, how many entries did it draw this year compared to marvel, 3s, and st?
Also, the pools would run 100 percent smoother if we were given some type of rope barrier to seperate the players from the spectators. It would also give the players less of an incentive to wander.
Last, please announce the games for next year early on, because I’m not going to buy a stick if you drop cvs2.
EDIT: also, since the smash community plays 5 stocks, I suggest you just make it 1 game for them and run top 4 or 6 on finals day to save time assuming you keep the game. It’s not a good idea to mess with the basics of how a tourney game is run and we all know that very well as SF players. If 3s was changed to 5 rounds 1 game instead of 3 rounds 2/3 in a tourney, everyone would think the tournament is a joke.
In response to guilty gear players and the “you should be running tournaments” post, I will say that is a fair point, but at the same time it just comfirms that what the guilty gear players do goes under the radar on a consistent basis.
Flash back to October, 2006, less than 2 months after Evo has ended. David “Cue” Navarette, a perennial top placer at Evo creates a gathering in Omaha nebraska solely for guilty gear slash. He told anyone with half a working ear during evo that he would like to get Nebraska back on the map for a major tourney, and so the wheels get put in motion. At this point Nebraska is 3 years removed from the glory days of N-cubed being a big point on the calender, and were talking about a tournament less than 2 months after the most expensive tournament to attend all year (for most).
The tournament goes off nearly 50 people deep for guilty gear, with contenders coming all the way from new york and florida from the east, and as far out as denver from the west, and even a texan or two showed up to participate. The tournament runs great, dave rents a hall to run the tourney, puts his mom up in a hotel so his own house can be used as a base of operations for casual and for people to crash. Were talking about an event in the middle of no where: Omaha nebraska, that draws nearly 50 people (and would have if not for some untimely flight delays/cancellations) with more than 30 of them playing on 14 or so setups Dave and I rigged up in his own house.
Besides tourneys like this, for the past two years GG has been consistently one of the top two games for entries at some very large tournaments. Every major at Nickle City in Chicago since 2005 i believe (which incluedes both Midwest championships and Midwest challenge) has had guilty gear sporting one of the top 2 in pure entry numbers. Other majors like Final Round and such have been consistently showing very high numbers for guilty gear tournaments. On top of that, it has been common practice for the past few years that the guilty players themselves also find enough time to run a 2 on 2 or 3 on 3 sbo side tourney at each of these major gatherings. Make no mistake about one thing: Guilty Gear players are dedicated to putting on a good tournament atmosphere and having well executed gatherings.
Again, I don’t feel surprised that many people think these sort of things aren’t going on. The GG community doesn’t speak loudly, especially here at SRK. A lot of the players felt ostracized early in the games lifespan due to the treatment they got by the other fighting game communties. Some of that treatment was brought upon themselves, some of it was not, regardless there is no denying that many players decided to just keep their nose clean and not start pissing matches with the bigger, older, and more established community that Capcom has rightfully built.
That being said, I still feel this all comes back to a lack of misunderstanding. The guilty gear players are out there, they are hungry, they love to compete and they bring in the bodies when a major tournament is going to go down. This just gets overlooked most of the time I think, because honestly we don’t “bring the hype”. You aren’t going to hear the GG players barking out about 1000 dollar money matches (even though one just happened at Evo this year, go figure) or creating constant drama, hype, and shit talk just for the sake of keeping the community hungry. The community wants to play the game, they want to do well and be recognized by the best players, that’s all the hype they need to go out and participate in tournaments.
The players are there, the determination and hunger is there, it’s just not as loudly spoken as SRK is often used to. I ask that this be kept in mind when making any decisions about GG’s future at Evo.
Let’s run this shit Marine Corps style! Hahaha
15 minutes prior to 15 minutes! Seriously, this shit works. 2k5 people were given times for their pool. This year, just your pool bracket letter was given, but the pool for semi’s was scheduled and you just appear and hit up your bracket area.
15 minutes is enough fucking time people. Show up, have ‘roll call’ and once everyone is accounted for, give them the brief. 1) Wait for your match 2) Winner reports to bracket runner/staff 3) If you have to don’t have a stick, borrow one from someone here in your pool. 4) If insist on using a buddy’s stick who’s elsewhere, you have 3 minutes to return with or without that stick 5) If you need to use the restroom, do it before the pools begin 6) If you’re hungry and want to go get something to eat, should of had a Snickers. You can wait until your done playing completely; qualify or get peaced out 7) If you ninja out and you’re up, your name will only be called once, 2 minutes to reappear or else automatic forfeit into losers or peaced out if already in losers. 8) Have fun!
-Rotendo
Agreed. Eliminate emergency/on-site registration. Generally, those that register online in advance are more committed to the “scene” and are less likely to cause trouble.
You would be wrong yet again. I simply said your point(s) are completely misinformed. First of all, I was not offended in any way by your comments about the Tekken commentary. You stated that you “heard” it wasn’t good. Meaning, you weren’t even there to hear it your self. I also pointed out that I had a ratio of like 50 positives to every 1 negative for the commentary. Absolutely nothing to get offended over. There was absolutely nothing personal in any of my replies to you, but if you want to attempt to make it seem that way to better serve your argument, then sure, all is fair in love and war.
I think you are, again, missing the point here. Smash is an excellent fighting game and it brings out big numbers. It has a huge community, it easily fits into what we are doing, and they have a community that is very worthy of holding a massive major for (aka EVO). What part of this don’t you understand?
Immature side? This is getting ridiculous. For simply saying you had a completely uninformed point (or points), proven by your lack of knowledge about the Smash players. Here’s the quote again, for everyone that missed it:
Let’s break it down:
… you can’t be serious. Let’s see how many crossover players there are next year for Brawl. It’s going to be a massive #, with people coming over to play from every other game at Evo.
So Smash players only own GC? For some strange reason they simply don’t own PS2’s, PS3’s, XBOX’s, DC’s? Another ridiculous assumption.
… I guess you are right, Smash players only play Smash and Mario Tennis. I’m very glad that you pointed that out… thus saving us the embarrassment of running a huge Smash tournament that will draw more entrants than any other game.
…
You are simply digging a hole for yourself with this line of arguing. Let’s go look at my reply to your Tekken criticism:
Hrm… it says “you heard wrong”. I pointed out that I was the commentator, and I had approximately 50 positives for every 1 negative. I stated that I know Tekken (I’ve written 4 or 5 strategy guides for the game) and that people were very pleased that someone that knew the game commentated on it.
So where, pray tell, is this “trouble dealing with light criticism”? Exactly. Nowhere. You are getting trounced in this point/counterpoint, and the typical response is to (poorly) try to change the meanng/intention of your opponents words. It’s not working. Simply saying that you have two completely ill-informed tidbits to say about something is not a personal attack, it’s simply saying “hey man, you are wrong here”. That’s it.
Big Bully moderator? Not polite? I never threatened to ban you. I never deleted any of your posts, or even edited them. I said, twice, “you are wrong” and now you are all bent out of shape and trying to fight “the man” when you don’t need to. Take your beats and move on. No reason to cry about someone telling you that you are wrong.
People said directly they didn’t like it. People also said directly that they loved it. You can’t please everyone. However, every single one of the Evo staff said it was excellent… this is in addition to the vast majority of people that have approached me about it both in person and online. Some negative, many positives.
I have been polite the entire time. I am still being polite with you. The more you attempt to change the meaning of my words, or the intentions, the more I’m going to have to disagree with you… and in your eyes, I suppose that’s being impolite. You are perfectly free to keep posting your opinions, just as everyone else has. There have been a lot of excellent suggestions, and everything is being noted. However, when you come out and simply make unsubstantiated claims like “Smash players don’t play anything else” and “I ‘heard’ Tekken commentary sucked balls” (very polite, by the way), then you are going to have some opposition.
Banned? Banned by who? You are taking this “the man” thing way too far. This is a suggestion thread. I purposely threw out some crazy suggestions to get people talking.
You have been treated with the same respect as anyone else here. The only difference is, when you had a reply directed to you specifically, you took it completely personally, and assumed you were being attacked, when that wasn’t the case. It was only your 2 outlandish and unfounded remarks that I pointed out, which somehow gave you the idea that I was now rude (but only to you).
The fact that I am still replying to you should make you realize that I respect the time and effort you are putting into this thread. However, you should stop with the whole line of “bully moderator” (which is completely unfounded) and “you are being rude to me” (also completely unfounded, as I am still replying to you in a cmopletely civil manner). Thanks.
This is what GG community needs to do. Show more initiative. More action, less talk. Very good point.
On organization:
fighterbox2006 has the best ideas I’ve ever seen for how to run a tourney efficiently. Trag, you should definitely take a page out of his book on this. With better, more efficient methods for running EVO, you wouldn’t have to cut the games to 6.
On that note though…
I have to say that cutting GG would be a mistake. I know you know it, that GG releases have been badly timed, and that having a game at evo that doesn’t have a stateside release forces you to either have the japanese consoles and games imported, or have a bunch of modded playstation 2s. Neither option is easy to do, much less in the numbers needed for the amounts of people who show up for the GG tourney.
And just to put it out there, people that wanted teams for EVO were just people who wished EVO was SBO, where GG gets a lot more attention than it gets here. That’s why there was a sizable singles tourney for AC on saturday, so the rest of us who ARE interested in who is best could find out who that was. I really didn’t even give a damn about the teams tourney aside from seeing if an american would win… I came to evolution 2k7 SPECIFICALLY for the singles tourney and to get matches in with the japanese.
Plus, teams really screwed with people who got teammates ditching them left and right at the very last minute, either for other teams or because something came up and now they can’t go to EVO. Especially considering that, this is the first time EVO has held a teams tourney for GG, so there was bound to be a lot of fuss and general sloppiness just because it was a different format than people were used to. Plus, people on SRK that don’t play GG always see fit to hate on it, and then say it has no cross over to try and tag our game as not being a competitive fighter worthy of being at EVO.
Even in this thread, capcom fanboys saw you mention GG might be up for a cut, and jumped on the chance to see it gone by lying to you about it, skewing facts, and misrepresenting the GG player base as much as possible. They aren’t interested in making EVO better, they only speak their piece to stroke their overinflated egos as fighting game players(something about GG makes capcom players feel really insecure… But I can’t put my finger on what exactly that is… shrug)…
…and the finals were in the morning.
In Vegas.
Try putting Marvel in that time slot and just see what happens…
All these things contributed to the lack of interest in GG finals… And yet, we still showed up for the finals, even if a bit drained. Who would miss our best players take on the japanese guys like MINT, BAS, gibson, or kami-chan? Spiteful elitist capcom fanboys, that’s who!
Aight…first off I dont like the idea of cutting out games. I just dont like it. We all may play different games but we’re all in it for the same thing. To promote the damned fighting game scene. We need everyone we can get to make this thing look like it’s worth something. This can definitely get organized for next year without cutting the games down to like 6 games.
Oh and fuck anyone who says Guilty Gear isn’t worthy of Evo.
Why not do it more like SBO. Have people qualify at other earlier tournys (East, West, North, South, Etc.) And only have those top 12 or 8 qualify for Evo Worlds eliminating pool play. However, i dont think this would work either cause not everyone that qualified this year outside of evo world actually went to evo.
Reducing the amount of games would work very well as well as marking off areas specifically for the players in their pools. Have a person in charge of each pool run the brackets and DQ people asap if they are not in their marked off pool area.
Well anyway, im looking forward to attending Evo next year, so hopefully a lot of these shortcomings (1 game 3s ftl) are worked out.
Yeah GG is definately Evo material, while on the flipside smash (even though it attracts many) is just not evo material (since evo mainly stemmed from 2d fighting games from capcom.) But if you guys can work out the time problems, i dont care whether or not smash is in or not cause it is a fun game.
Hell, how about a location change for evo world…lol (hopes)
Uh…yeah…it did. But uh, Why is smash not worthy just because of that? by that logic, they should cut out any 3D fighters and GG.
Well, here’s hoping that TK6 and SC4 aren’t ass. I’d love to see the namco community there.
Good points. USA finally cracking top 2 is pretty big for the community. I only hope it translates into more players. More players, more interest, more tournaments. I mean, let’s be real here. If the community is alive and jumping, there’s no justification to cut it. Nothing is set in stone, even if it seems like it is (except MVC2/3S).
That’s a pretty good lineup as well, however, it doesn’t take into account any Namco game. We need at least one. Perhaps we might have to figure out how to run 7 games and add in SC4 or TK:DR (if it’s still big at the time). All good things to consider.
Good suggestion. This is double edged sword, however. If people aren’t allowed to play in the same room (where they can hear their name being called - most of the time) they will take money matches to their rooms. Bigger chance for DQ. That being said, it’s completely their fault at that point, but I’m simply pointing it out for argument’s sake. I do like BYOC in main room, and I think the suggestion to turn of BYOC during qualifiers is a good idea (and perhaps semis).
Very good points here. What puzzles me is: VF players are known to travel great distances for simply gatherings. Why aren’t they showing up for EVO? If we can’t figure this out, I fear VF’s days are done =(.
Solid points. We really have to see how the game is before we can even begin to make a logical decision.
Unfortunately for Smash haters…because of how many people Smash brought in…it’s here to stay regardless. It’s just close enough to being a fighting game that the entrants it brings along with it makes it worth it for promoting the fighting game scene. I would be nearly dumbfounded if Smash wasn’t at Evo next year and I can’t stand the game at all. I do know that there’s other 2d/3d fighter players that do like Smash and Smash players that do like SF and other 2d/3d fighters.
Location change? Vegas is dat ish. Vegas every year until we’re like 80. :lol:
Good… if Evo stays in Vegas, my overall expenses will stay cheap… 20 dollars for the gas to get to GVR and the entry fee for Third Strike:rofl:
I agree with DJ, Smash isn’t going anywhere after that turnout… I was roaming around trying to find my friends that play the game religiously. To my surprise, they aren’t there, but after linking them the qualifier matches, they definitely want to sign up in 08. They thought Evolution was all 3s CVS2 and MVC2…
Is it possible to hold different games in multiple locations? like renting space for Green Valley Ranch and Red Rock Casino? Hell, UNLV has a bunch of ampitheater, media rooms perfect for gaming…
This way, the qualifiers for some matches wouldn’t be at 7-10am in the morning, but could be held at the same time as the other matches qualifiers… just a thought.
However that depends entirely on how much it is to use GVR as the facility…
Just based on anticipation, and overall interest from the irc channels I’ve been in, and on the forums I’ve been reading, and talking to “SF” players at EVO, Smash Brawl is going to be huge. A large number of “SF” players are looking to get into it seriously for next year. I still feel that Smash will have the largest turnout of any game next year, and have the most amount of crossover players.
I think you have it a bit wrong here. No one on the Evo staff is trying to fuck over the GG players. The majority of us love the game and have always wanted to see it succeed. Why do you think it’s been in 4 Evos? The problem with versions was not about fucking anyone over, it was actually about not fucking people over, and forcing them to learn a new version that they may not even have access to. Of course, the top players will most-likely always be playing the newest version, but that isn’t all of the people that come to the tourneys. This is why it was such a big decision (both times). One time we went old version, one time we went new version.
The reason it was changed to teams was not to fuck anyone over, it was because of limited resources (Japanese PS2’s). This problem will be gone with a USA release… but again, it’s not as if we are singling out GG to fuck them over. Most of us (staff) love and respect it.
Also, changing it to AC before worlds was done as a favor to the community. Numerous times, the community stood up for itself and said “we want the newest version”. How is that fucking over the community? We listened to the majority. Sure, not everyone wanted AC, but the vast majority did. So after careful deliberation, it was changed.
What GG really needs is some bigger crossover players. Since it is “similar” to a SF / MvC2 (mash up), it would be highly beneficial if we had some of the other game big names to help spark more interest… give people a reason to try it out and stick with it. There’s a ton to learn, and GG is a bit daunting at first. It’s great to have Combofiend, Sirlin, and a few others… but we need more.
I couldn’t agree more. This is the type of attitude we need to see more of, along with action to back it up. Good stuff.
If anything I would say location change simply because Vegas is SO FREAKING EXPENSIVE
Hopefully with emergency registration gone we can have neat little brackets that should be posted up on a BIG SCREEN so that everyone can see what’s going on (for the qualifiers and semis). Loudspeakers is also a good idea but with many pools going on at the same time that’s probably not the best approach. Or, instead of having the brackets shown on a big screen we could use LCD displays, or even projectors, at each station of the pools. Visual confirmation is always the easiest to understand 