I think balrog gives honda a fair challenge.
He’s just flamboyant… sorry you can’t tell the difference.
No one could tell the difference back in the day.
He had Chun Li’s voice set.
He wears tight clothes and he yodels instead of you know like a beast roar.
Definitely not an alpha male.
Kinda like saying the joker is not an alpha male.
He’s top tier, how is he not an alpha male?
Well, the joker is insane too.
I don’t get that from vega.
Although, yes I would say that the joker isn’t really an alpha male.
top tier != alpha male.
Look at ken, he’s not top tier.
Don’t think you know much about Vega then.
characters like vega were created to promote homesexuality:
[media=youtube]cTzQGVQmojs&feature=related[/media]
I for one support homesexuality. People should be wearing clothes while they’re in public.
Lol, good catch man.
What, no love for officesexuality? No hanky panky behind in the cubicle? Or what’s wrong with a little jerk before you work? 
Ken is pretty well balanced on HD Remix, i think he’s on top of middle tier list, i mean, he’s not top, but i feel that he can handle against the whole cast very well.
edit: of course with a few exceptions like sim, chun(imo) and gief
And yes Vega is top tier.
HDR is part of the same trend: making inputs easier/dumbing them down, removing strats that had a counter but you had to be good to beat them (Claw’s walldives) etc. But yeah when you compare it to stuff like SF4 anything seems hardcore as hell.
HF/SSFII fans said the same thing about ST. “Supers allow a losing opponent to make a comeback. It allows more wins off chip damage.” Every SF2 iteration had its haters, and HDR is no different.
Not all the input changes were about making things easier. Some inputs were actually made more difficult, like Tiger Knee now having a DP motion, which makes it much more efficient as the old TK motion was less intuitive and is close to the Kick Shot motion. Banishing Fist is actually the same quarter circle motion but now instead of f,df,d it’s qcf, which is a lot better for footsies as Zangief can now walk forward and do a crouching punch without worrying about a BF coming out by accident. Same thing for Ken’s Crazy Kick motion changes, IMO ST Crazy Kicks are just dumb (3 diff motions, what was the reason for that).
It does not take skill to beat ST Wall Dives, it takes luck to guess right. It could be a 50-50 lucky guess and turns the game into a slot machine (he went left last time, it must be right this time). IMO I hate games of luck, leave those games for the casino TYVM, I’d rather play a fighting game that requires skill not luck.
Some strats did not have a counter at all, like Hawk’s no-escape Typhoon loop. TBH IDK what the ST designers were thinking. Hawk was introduced in a game where the only other grappler already had a whiff animation. Yet the designers decide to not only not give Hawk a whiff, but give him an invincible-on-startup DP which Zangief does not have. That DP is what makes the loop inescapable IMO. I realize that I’m speaking with the benefit of hindsight, which is something the ST designers did not have, but the best thing to have done is to give both command throws a whiff. Why not? Keep things equal between both grapplers, it makes sense IMO.
The rising hawk does not make the loop inescapable for most characters in VST, he could just block the reversal move and throw right after. It makes a difference against Cammy, Blanka and Fei, whose reversals are often safe. Vega and Balrog’s reversals beat of escape the rising hawk, IIRC, so Hawk should not include the move in the option select motion against them.
Edit: there is certainly something I have missed, but the main point is that the option select typhoon/nothing is the most important tool, not the rising hawk/typhoon. The latter just makes it faster. BTW, I suspect he would lose to Cammy bad without the loop in vanilla.
Makes what faster? You definitely have missed the point. The point is not that Vega or Balrog can beat or trade with the Rising Hawk (Cammy and Fei’s DPs lose to it, same with Ryu and Ken), the point is that those characters are forced to reversal attack or automatically get thrown. And if they do guess right, their reversal attack might trade or lose to the Rising Hawk (most characters lose, including N Shoryukens). Like you said, Hawk can bait their reversal and punish Vega and Balrog very easily. Same with Blanka in the corner.
The point is that most characters get rewarded for guessing right by eating a DP to the face. The tactic is extremely powerful, with very few viable counters, and the poster I was responding to seems to have forgotten about this inescapable loop in his hate of HDR.
All input changes were about making things easier. Some were sensible changes (f,df,d motions were retarded indeed), some absolutely terrible (chicken wing changed to qcf and nerfed because of it). 360 changes were retarded too.
It does take skill to beat walldives: don’t let Vega actually start them, or failing that be good at reversaling. Removing the knockdown altogether is a lazy way to cater to lazy players that can’t be bothered to think of counters.
Hawk’s loop has a very good counter: don’t let him start the loop. And guess what, it’s a pretty good counter because I don’t see loads of Hawks winning tourneys. But that thing made him be able to be a viable character, even when he’s at disadvantage against pretty much the whole cast. In HDR he has nothing special going for him.
Hawk was a really interesting design in fact: it’s the Capcom grappler philosophy at its most extreme form: you’ll struggle a lot to get in, but once you get in, it’s over. If you have good execution that is. Because yeah, besides of having to be hella good to get in close against good zoners/turtlers, you have to have hella good execution to pull that shit off.
I’ll take that any day over the shitty, glitchy HDR Hawk. Just like with many other characters, Sirlin just didn’t understand Hawk. The only truly well upgraded character in the game is Bison IMO, and I guess that’s because he mained him and actually understood the character’s philosophy.
As a side note, I don’t like the irrational hatred for HDR, since it’s still a fine game regardless of the changes. But the truth is that most of those changes make it a worse game.
Well to be fair, back in the early 90’s the Street Fighter designers probably never imagined the shit people would be able to do just a few years later. Balancing for fighting games was still an immature process back then.
I have no idea what you guys are talking about but I’ll just say this regarding Hawk vs Blanka in the corner…
A smart Blanka player will quickly charge a super and save it for Hawk’s corner trap attempts. I always try to keep a super handy just to get out of there and reset IF I should get cornered.