Reminder that essentially every single other 3s tournament in the world besides Evo allowed the winner to switch super arts. Yes, even in Japan; for example, the KSK ranbats did 2/3 games for the finals and allowed both players to switch supers.
Does nobody remember the uproar when Evo did that? Fubarduck and several other high-level players argued against that IIRC.
I’m surprised the response here hasn’t been larger, to be honest.
What is your point exactly? That counterpicking is bad? Counterpicking has been around for decades. Its nothing new to the US or Evo. Look at ST, that game is full of counter picking, its how games work. If we wanted to get rid of counterpicking, we would hold a Japanese style tournament, where you get to pick one character throughout the tournament. This is not Japan however, and thats not how things work over here.
The winner should be given NO advantages over someone if they win. The loser should be able to counter pick the winner in order to win the next game, forcing the winner to come back and win the 3rd and deciding game. This is how you find the better players, aka finding the best player in the tournament. If you end up losing game 2, you can always pick a new character or new ultra to win game 3.
Also for the record, the arcade version of SSF4 has no bearing on what EVO does, since we are a console tournament.
Is this representative of yours on the Board of Directors an SSF4 developer? Because I honestly cannot see after all those developer blogs about how Ultras were added to help characters with matchups that this person knows this system of development as well as he should.
There are a lot of good points made here.
[LIST=1]
[]Ultras don’t fight each other.
[]If you’re worried about Ultra-to-Ultra combat, make Ultras blind pick by choice just like characters even after the first victory.
[]Waiting until the third game to force someone to pick their best utility Ultra is a waste of time.
[]This current ruleset favors characters that have one good, go-to Ultra in a horrible way. Flexibility is important.
[*]There is not any proof currently of a character with two incredibly dominating Ultras.
[/LIST]
This is a chance for EVO to set a worldwide standard. Ultras should be selectable before every game, this applies ESPECIALLY in team battles where you will be fighting a plethora of different characters. Please consider asking the community or reconsidering, I believe this to be incredibly important.
Incorrect. Every tournament up to around 2004, used the no change super rules. After that, FFA decided they wanted to use Japanese rules and allowed super switching. Alot of other tournaments followed suit as US groupies all decided they wanted to be more like Japan and adopted their rules.
Although it won’t satisfy everyone, 4:3 HDR is a great decision.
Well I expect this year’s evo to have the most blind picks in tournament history.
It’s a very American rule… and I love America…
Do you love America?
Updated first post with a new scenario.
We are thinking about letting the winner change ultra but they have to pick their ultra first in game 2 or 3. This would allow a little bit less counterpicking. Thoughts?
I honestly don’t think the winner should have an advantage in picking at all after his win, although if you do decide to do it making him pick first is good. If ultras are so strong that keeping the same one keeps you at too big of a disadvantage then you should consider the potential counter pick that entails that before picking it in the first place. Plus if they are that strong then isn’t allowing the winner to change too big of an advantage against the person who just lost? My vote is winner keeps what he picks. If he loses there’s always game 3.
hell nah, players should stick to the ultra that beat their opponent the first time
switching ultras leads to bs, costumes on the other hand can change
That seems to be the best compromise. As someone who plays a character with very match up specific ultra choices, that would make me a lot more comfortable. The older ruling is simply too advantageous to characters who basically always use one ultra. If every character had two ultras they often swapped out depending on the matchup, I would see the wisdom of fixed ultras. Super just doesn’t work like that though.
Letting the winner change ultras to account for the matchup change addresses this, but still gives the loser an opportunity to counter pick the ultra.
Regardless of what you decide to go with, thank you for reconsidering the issue.
I like it. 100%. Thanks for putting up with our diatribes.
That’s the way to do it.
Winner forced same char. Loser can change. Winner picks ultra first. Loser picks ultra second. GG!
definately a fair and workeable compromise. mrwizard comes through with the win once again
Good move, it should be the standard for any game that has an option like that.
after watching North Cail R today I can def say that letting the winner change ultra counter picks the character you chose to counter pick him more than changing the character
ie, rufus
if i was in the finals and i was down 3-0, i’d be damn if i let you counter pick my character with your ultra, not letting me get some momentum back
no thanks
Is that prior to the loser’s character selection or after?
to me a scenario like blind pick first match, rufus u1 vs. bison u2, bison loses, switches to ryu u1 and then rufus gets to switch to u2, seriously damaging the counterpick advantage the loser is supposed to have, is pretty gross. if only having one ultra wasnt a problem in sf4 i dont see why not being able to switch is a big deal in ssf4. yeah it advantages characters who only use one ultra, but was the difference between, say, ryu and chun so grievously bad in sf4 that we absolutely have to allow chun to change ultras to preserve the integrity of the game?
I like this better IMO. Doesn’t really allow either party to do a full on counterpick.
Basically, this turns into a game of “Win first match.” Because this will be how the majority of matches transpire:
Match 1: Blind select, a player wins.
Match 2: Loser counterpicks BOTH character AND ultra. Match 1 loser wins.
Match 3: Match 2 Loser counterpicks BOTH character AND ultra (or picks the better ultra for the winner’s character). Match 2 loser wins set more often than not.
Rinse repeat as necessary for finals.
And if you’re in the finals, you should be able to play against a person’s ultra counterpick, as that’s going to be ultra you’re facing from that character, oh, pretty much every time you play against them. Otherwise, you wouldn’t be in the finals.
That’s the exact example I come up with, time and time again, is Ryu vs. Chun, and a glaring one. Let’s say it starts out Chun vs. Dudley. Chun picks Kikosho, wins, Dudley player switches to Ryu. This would be a hard match period, but if Chun can’t switch to Hosenka, it becomes dire for Chun.
i like it, good idea wizard 