Yup. oh but wait. Is that why Kok might be dropping him for gat after his last tourney lost? If Hakan can win a major tournament beating out more than 1 E.Ryu incuding KOK. He might just suck.
Edit^ You do know naps dropped E.Ryu and AE entirely for TTT2…facepalm
First of all, dont sleep on Hakan. When you watch guys like infiltration play hakan and you look at Hakan’s basically 10-0 matchup with dhalsim you should have a little more respect. Secondly, the fact that Napps is playing TTT2 and was always a Tekken player doesnt change the fact that there are still top level players who got far in major tournaments with evil ryu…Like Mr Napps. Just because he’s not playing anymore doesnt discredit what he did. That logic is so stupid it makes ME facepalm.
If people are that concerned with his lack of tools then switch to Cammy or Akuma. He’s a good character with a lot of options, mixup and massive damage potential.
Sorry buddy but you are just wrong on this. Cammy and Akuma are two of the best because they have a powerful vortex game. They can get in easily then lock their opponent down. They are both extremely mobile - Cammy negates fireball characters easily with her ex spiral arrow and Ultra 1 threat plus can approach from above with her instant EX cannon spike that has an amazing hit box, Akuma has his versatile demon flip on top of his amazing walk speed and air fireballs.
Evil Ryu has way more trouble getting in and staying there than Cammy or Akuma. While has great zoning tools he is at his best when he is rushing down and mixing it up yet has he too few tools that let him do that. I would love to the see day when an Evil Ryu makes top 8 at a major but I’m not going to be holding my breath.
Reduce startup for all axe kicks by 1 or 2 frames.
Make st.mk cancellable. It will help him compete at the shoto range.
A slight increase in health.
“Compete” would be an understatement. Evil Ryu would be able to do st.mk xx mk axe kick -> cr.mp into whatever. That’s like 340ish meterless damage off a poke that goes over lows.
Leave his health where it is: honestly, with Evil Ryu’s damage output so ridiculously high, his lower health doesn’t really matter. He can do 422 damage, meterless, with no Ultra off a fierce jump in and carry most of the way to the corner from mid-screen: he can do more with meter. If that isn’t the best damage output in the game, it’s close enough that it doesn’t matter: So you eat a combo for 320; so what? One confirm off of crouching jab or a clean jump in, you’re back in the game with a mix up to boot. Evil Ryu makes everyone else’s health irrelevant.
I’d settle for light axe kick being a little safer on block. Maybe red fire ball starting or recovering a little faster.
I made a post before on what he needs, and looking at it now, he don’t really need most of what I posted, hes really good as he is now but what I think will make him more solid would be to make:
HK axekick 1frame faster.(His axekick game would be better, be harder to tell from the hardkick version from medium version)
EX axekick the same frames as medium axekick which is 20frames i believe.
Far standing mk -1 on block.
I think his main problems are.
Axe kicks not really viable outside combos, some versions totally wasted. C’mon is his signature move, why so unsafe Capcom?.
Teleport is really slow. I think his teleport being faster is the way to go, E.Ryu haven’t a vortex, so it’s best to play upclose.
Not so goddam different setups, and what works and whatnot. Normalize the matchups please :_(
On a side note: His flames are annoying, they should be more transparent…
6f cr.mk and allow close HP to be farther out.
I still love madness.
More than anything I would really like E Ryu to gain the solar plexus strike. I feel he has a much more difficult time dealing with good focus attacks than any other shoto. Unlike both Ryu and Akuma he lacks a normal that moves him forward and blows up focus fishers.In addition, his approach options don’t recover as fast as Ken’s or Oni’s. Unless you burn meter on exfireball or commit to a hopkick xx tatsu. Its difficult for him to directly deal with people teasing with max range focus attacks. Hell I wouldn’t even mind if he lost his garbage chain combo or even shaku fireball to get this. I mean canonically there is no reason why he shouldn’t have either Ryus solar plexus strike or Akuma’s far roundhouse.
I’d also really like to see c.MK become a 6f normal. Although c.MK, c.HK, s.MK, s.Hk, and s.Hp all cover a great amount of space, they often get stuffed in a footsie war due to slow startup. I understand they didn’t want him to zone quite as well as Ryu, but this lack of midrange options is just excessive. Most top E Ryus are thus forced to play very reserved at a range where most characters may just abuse their own low forward/low strong/sweep.
Other than that, I’d just like to see some of his frame data be slightly adjusted just to make him a slightly less execution heavy character. Stuff like lk axe kick> FADC>s.MP being more than a 1 frame link or make far s.MP a 4 frame normal to make hit confirming off far jabs on a crouching opponent a smidge easier.
Also, I’d really argue against a 6f sweep. Between a vortex, great zoning tools, and huge burst damage and stun capabilities, I believe he could well become a touch overpowering. I would however recommend they fix the hit box on it to actually match akuma’s sweep. As it stands, his foot will often just harmlessly phase through the opponents legs. In addition, sweep covers barely a pixel more space than c.MK, thus removing much of the incentive to use it.
When are people going to realize a good cr.mk with the damage potential, range and solidity of cr.mk xx fireball is a ridiculously risky suggestion. I swear, it gets thrown around like candy when it’s not a treat but a bomb. The sweep covers the same range as any other shoto. Surprise, the cr.mk is good for something. It has a ton of range.
MK Axe kick doesn’t seem too bad for blowing up focus? SPS breaks focus on the 19th frame, MK Axe on the 20th. Up in the opponent’s face button xx hk/mk tatsu should be pretty nice - ERyu tatsus have the 5f knee hit, don’t they?
Nothing gets people to agree with you faster than a passive-aggressive condescending tone amirite? You understand this is a WISHLIST for a patch that will never come, yea? Honestly, this is like a mall santa bickering with the kids
I understand well and clear that c.MK has good range, moves E Ryu forward significantly when cancelled, may lead into big damage, and otherwise has great…‘solidity?’. What I’m really asking for is for a better footsie normal. As it stands there is an area between max jab range and max c.MK range where E Ryu has to play very patiently as he can not reliably challenge the significantly faster low forwards/sweeps of much of the cast. He can really only footsie zone decently when he can outrange the opponent, often with far s.MK, or otherwise puts them in a position wherein they’ll walk forward into c.MK. In most cases, speed easily trumps range.
Also, if you wanna throw out preemptive axe kicks in the neutral game, be my guest. The move is slow, has a very telegraphed animation, a deceptively small hitbox, has few active frames, and is significantly minus should they have just blocked. In my experience the only reliable options E Ryu has to punish focus fishers outside of jab range is to react with either c.MK xx DP (risky because slow startup can get counterhit by a lvl 2 focus) or HK tatsu (5 frame startup holds a better chance of counter hitting the actual attack + chases down a backdash cancel + multiple hits)
Oh, and while yes the sweep does have typical shoto range, its a garbage move whether or not you compare it to the low forward. It doesn’t have better range or start up than any of his other footsie normals and has terrible recovery to top it off. Its going to stay a garbage move until either the speed or reach is buffed.
It’s a wishlist, sure, but I’d like the wishes to be realistic. I mean, I can just as easily go and as for Akuma to get more HP/stun, his stun output back, his jab-roundhouse loop from Vanilla or other such things. Doesn’t mean they wouldn’t make for an absolutely terrible game, which they likely would. Thus I don’t ask them, and also why people asking for silly things semi-seriously in these kinds of threads gets on my nerves - not just here, of course.
The want for some option in that range is relatively reasonable, but the reason I’m highlighting the cr.mk is because there’s other buttons that might be made more convenient at that distance that don’t have the risk factor associated with the cr.mk. Consider, for example, that currently Ryu’s main advantages over ER boil down to the cr.mk frame data and a better sweep. Giving ER a better cr.mk with all his other advantages over Ryu is a bit… eh. Another question that should be asked is should ER even be strong at that range? Again, he’s stronger than Ryu up close (or can at least go totally wtfbbq destructor mode at that range), and probably better farther out with shakus, walk speed, dashes and such. Should he be made good at the one range he is uncomfortable at? If the answer is yes, how? One option could be st.mk, which could perhaps be tweaked to not move him so much, but to have very good frame data, so he wouldn’t really have payoffs or explosion potential at that range, but would at least have something to pester opponents with.
On MK Axe Kick, it should be good? You asked for Solar Plexus Strike, which takes 19 frames to break armor, and has to hit deep enough for both hits to connect to do so. In Training Room terms, on Ryu, let’s denote the distance “Max range sweep on standing Ryu from small square border” as SW, and measure distance in small Training Mode squares.
SPS hits twice on standing Ryu at SW+1, on focusing Ryu at SW+3.
MK Axe Kick hits standing Ryu at SW+5. It hits on a focusing Ryu from at least SW+8.
SPS breaks armor at the 19th frame, lasts 38 frames total, 0 on block, +4 on hit.
Axe breaks armor at the 20th frame, lasts 41 frames total, -2 on block, +4 on hit.
If you connect MK Axe Kick at about SW+4 or so and break a focus, you can just mash HP SRK for 260 damage or so. Just as SPS.
The distinctive animation aside, I don’t think that’s very bad at all. -2 also doesn’t sound like “significantly minus” on block, far from it. It leaves you safe, though ends your pressure. If you want to argue the other axe kicks being crap, I don’t mind, but MK seems to be very similar to SPS, which is also primarily a tool you use on a read.
EDIT: The MK Axe Kick hitbox is also about a million times bigger than the SPS one and has some actual priority, if only in a small space against low attacks. SPS has NONE.
Eryu has a better armor breaker than sps. Just do c.mk xx mp dp. C.mk does actually push you forward. It’s really the only thing that will work every time. Anything else you’re going to trade sometimes or even lose. With this, only thing you have to worry about is them baiting you, but that’s pretty hard.
I think ER and Ryu are in the same boat when it comes to armor breaking. Neither wants to use their armor breaker because both have slow start up although Ryu’s is much faster it doesn’t hit low so if he gets baited, he’ll get punished for it. So it’s pretty much going to be low forward into something for both guys. ER has more reach while Ryu’s low forward has faster start up. But people are normally FA’ing in your face so pretty much Ryu’s low forward is better in this situation. In the end I don’t think either is great in the focus breaking department, but that’s OK, not everybody is great in every department.
I still want a safer light axe kick(-3 on block, still +4 on hit) and 6 frame sweep though. If I could have that at least I’d be cool if my other suggestions weren’t made. And no, a 6f sweep isn’t going to improve him too much. There is no vortex, it’s basically just for footsies and for walk up frame traps.
-3 on block lk axe kick is safe against most of the cast, considering the pushback. I think it already has reasonable utility considering it’s the only axe kick that combos from far away.
EX Axekick shouldn’t get invincible frames until it goes active, because that is abusive. Partial invincibility like EX hazanshu or CW would be okay, but it’s not a change I’d really care for.
Well that’s kind of the point, for it to be safe on block so it can be used as a pressure tool similar to Yun’s jab shoulder or Cody’s jab criminal upper. Even with the change it would still be a risk to do since it’s not a true block string when canceled from a low forward. The way it is right now, it’s not very unsafe against practically the entire cast. There is enough push back to avoid jabs and shorts, but just about everybody has a medium, high, or special that can punish it on block.
EX axe kick even with invincibility can’t be abused because it’s -4 with no push back. It’s not a free get in or free pressure move. You’ll get SRK’s by any shoto or hit confirmed into a combo from any 3-4 frame normal. It just gets stuffed so easily like all the other axe kicks, I figure some hit invincibilty while removing damage would be a fair trade off considering we’re using meter for this move and everybody blocks the axe kicks high anyways.
LP Criminal Upper is not safe. It is -5.
Why do you think that making lk axe kick -3 on block would turn it into a pressure tool? -3 means your pressure just ended. They get to press a button now without worrying about getting counterhit.