Each move has different benefits. I don’t see why it makes one tool strictly better than the other though.
Because axe kicks are a special move, and sps is a command normal. You’d be giving up 4 attacks for sps, including an overhead. It’s also Eryu’s armor breaker. Axe kick combos do more damage than sps combos. You can start an axe kick combo of almost all of eryu’s attacks. I mean, I can keep going, but I think you get the idea. A more interesting question would be sps or hop kick? That would be a tough choice for me.
Basically, the main purpose of SPS is to break armor and to occasionally be used in pressure strings. SPS properties compared to MK Axe Kick:
In Training Room terms, on Ryu, let’s denote the distance “Max range sweep on standing Ryu from small square border” (same range for both Ryus) as SW, and measure distance in small Training Mode squares.
SPS hits twice on standing Ryu at SW+1, on focusing Ryu at SW+3.
MK Axe Kick hits standing Ryu at SW+5. It hits on a focusing Ryu from at least SW+8.
SPS connects on the 17th frame, breaks armor at the 19th frame, lasts 38 frames total, 0 on block, +4 on hit.
Axe connects and breaks armor at the 20th frame, lasts 41 frames total, -2 on block, +4 on hit.
If you connect MK Axe kick at about SW+4 and break focus, a mashed SRK combos for 260 or so.
SPS does deal 20 points more damage raw.
the next bad suggestion I have seen… make MK axe kick +5 on hit.
HELL NO. It’s a 1f link to cr.MP for a reason. If you can’t plink use cr.LP
Here is a stupid suggestion but it would be awesome if Evil Ryu has a EX air tatsu that functioned similar to Ken’s
Grounded EX tatsu remains the same:
He could still do F+MK > EX tatsu > MK Axe kick in the corner (FIX BALROG)
But seriously, what do you guys think of
far standing Light punch
start up 4
active 3
Recovery 5 (down from 6)
Hit stun +6 but blockstun left at +2
I’m assuming by changing the block stun to +6 it makes low forward or st.strong a tighter block string maybe? idk~ o.o
hitstun+6
blockstun+2
It’s still the same but he has more hitstun so he could potentially hit on the second active frame on more characters. I will test this later when I figure out how to do it on the PC Version
I don’t really see how that helps too much. It sounds like all we’d get is a few wonky sweep combos that has to be done situationally like the one that works against most of the Chinese characters and Ibuki. I actually think changing his st. jab to a 3 frame start up helps more since he has a way to deal with characters like Balrog or Fei who can safely use dash straigh and rekka against him because he can’t punish them because of the push back from it.
screw this. cr.MK or cr.HK needs to start in 6 frames. One or the other. cr.HK definitely needs the recovery -7 no more than -8 on block
That is all
This was my post on the capcom forums. Dont think these are unreasonable per say. Not saying add them all. Just suggestions:
I think Evil Ryu is a very viable character but i think a few changes need to be made to him for him to be at least a mid tier character. These are just suggestions which would greatly help his game. He has lots of mixups and hes a execution heavy char but thats not a big deal. But his risk reward is really tough and he needs at least two bars to be a threat. Otherwise you’re stuck throwing cr.mk into hado in order to build meter lol.
Here are some suggestions of potential improvements that would HELP. Not all need to be added but hopefully just considered.
Adjust LK axe kick. Unless you’re Sakonoko or Naruo or Mr.Napps, just linking the standing medium punch within your combo into lk axe kick is really hard then you need to FADC into cr.lp standing HP is extremely tough. I think that you could make it viable by just having it linkable with cr.mp. That way you can link it a lot easier and it makes it a bit more of a pressure tool when you dont have meter etc.
Add some HP! He does great damage but he shouldnt have reduced health. Honestly, if this was the only buff, I would be completely fine. If nothing is adjusted besides health, 950 but if not put him to 1k. I dont think this is unreasonable for him to have the same HP as the majority of the cast.
Improve his teleport. Enough said. If he’s going to have lower HP, give him Akuma’s teleport.
Make it so that his tastu hits the entire cast within the axe kick combo. It doesnt land on characters with low hitboxes aka. Blanka.
Adjust his sweep/cross up tastu into sweep or both. Maybe improve his sweep or give him the ability to at least cross up tastu into sweep. Again, if he doesnt get an HP adjustment give him some tools that akuma has to improve his vortex/mixups.
Adjust his dive kick. Again, give him some better hitstun with the dive kick or enable him to have say some safe jumps with dive kick. This would really help him out with mixups and MASSIVELY opens up the door for him and his mixup game.
Or worst case scenario if you mix and match. At least adjust his cr.mk. Its great but its really its his only tool when he doesnt have meter.
Finally, something that would be a lot more and prob unlikely would be allowing say cr.lp to link into cr.hp. At least that way he can convert more combos into his mk.axe kick set up.
Dont make his lk.axe kick overhead. Make it linkable so that it can actually become viable in a combo.
Thats all i have! E.RYU needs some buffs though, just minor because he has MASSIVE potential but needs a few more tools :D! THANKS CAPCOM. LOVE YOU!
I guess I understand why people are asking for an easier lk axe kick fadc combo, but I really hope they don’t do that. I love that just how it is. It’s difficult, but the reward is large…and if you practice it enough, it’s not as hard as it seems. They don’t need to be standing for you to get a solid combo. If they’re crouching I just don’t FADC it, or I’ll link dp after the mk axe kick. I’ve posted a bunch of times that linking the c.lp after it would never be viable in a match, but I’m even second guessing that. I can loop it a bit in training mode now, so I’m sure someone who’s better could hit it all the time.
My execution is ass so I’d love LK axe kick to be +4 after FADC on hit rather than +3. But I’m pretty sure they don’t want that because then you can use cr. MP instead of cr. LP. This would lead to 4 bar combos that could do over 1000 stun. I’m pretty sure this is a change that won’t happen.
I do practice it all the time but still can’t get it consistently enough. But I have trouble with all of Evil Ryu’s harder links. I guess you can say he’s not the ideal character for my level of execution, but I just like him too much to main anybody else.
Just set the meter to refill and do it over and over and over again in training mode. That’s how I learned how to do all of his links.
Dannk, explain to me. Because my execution is good. but right now I can do cr.MP, standing.MP, lk.axe kick FADC into say cr.lp lp mp tastu or whatever. But I cant do FADC axe kick into HP or cr.lp HP is tough.
Is there something else i can FADC into to get into the MK axe combo?
Try cl. mp. Doesn’t force stand, but you can combo things like shaku and hk axe kick off of it.
Yeah, cl. MP is the go to move after LK axe kick, FADC. It’s plinkable unlike cr. jab. And if you’re opponent is crouching, you just have to skip the tatsu and go straight for DP after MK axe kick. Your execution has to really be on point to go for the unplinkable jab link after LK axe kick FADC.
I do practice this link a lot in the training room with meters on infinite. But my rate is probably around 50% at best. So I don’t have a lot of confidence in hitting this link in matches. But it’s so much easier to confirm compared to low forward fireball which is really only one hit confirm since you have to FADC the fireball immediately. DP is mashable after a LK axe kick FADC, it’s just so little damage compared to what you could do if your execution is good enough.
So reports back from the Evil Ryu thread at unity. The consensus from the more sane players seem to be
-cr. MK sped up to 6f from 7f
-safer sweep, -7 or -8
-safer LK axe kick, -4 or -5
Then we have a bunch of miscellaneous things like some people wanting a slightly better teleport, slightly more life, HK axe kick to be a over head. I personally wanted cl. HP to be 4 frames to make the jab link easier and for his hop kick tatsu’s to have more block stun(2 extra frames for each version) and the EX version to have a little more push back against crouching opponents. Several people including myself have practically written a essay on the state of Evil Ryu as we see him today. Hopefully Combo will understand us and relay our message as we’ve all put a lot of effort into coming up with changes that helps Evil Ryu that makes sense without making him too good. And hopefully Ono and company will understand us as well.
Yea, they answered before I got here. The combo should be lk axe kick xx fadc, cl.mp xx mk axe kick, c.mp xx lk tatsu, hp dp.
I dunno. This conversation is hard for me, because I’m not good. I get blown up by all kinds of people. These combos aren’t that difficult for me, though. Maybe I can’t say things are easy anymore. Maybe I do have above average execution. Who knows?
Train more on hit confirming too, if you can’t hit confirm that FADC. Ryu’s is tight, but you get a lot more frames to see with eryu. Right now I’m working on hit confirming the fadc for c.mk xx fireball xx fadc, ultra. So hard. Have to see it the instant it hits or your ultra gets blocked.
I’m pretty sure thats because you need to EX HADO. Im posting a couple vids soon of me using that in some better ranked matches. You can just do the option select like ryu and as soon as it hits you fadc. Needs 3 meters but still worth it to win the match.
Thanks for the tips yall.
Lets get back on topic!
Cr. MK, hado, fadc, Ultra does work, it’s spacing specific though. You basically have to hit your cr. MK at the tip. Since you can’t combo into it, you just have to know that you’re far away enough for it to work. With st. MP it’s much easier as you can space it right with enough light attacks before the st. MP. Unless I’m mistaken, MK axe kick xx cr. LP, st. MP, hado, FADC, Ultra 2 works on everybody.
I meant EX fireball.