Evil Ryu General Discussion: Same Ryu, but now he's pissed!

[Mafamaticks]

I’ve got a HDPVR… it’s how I figured out Evil Ryu’s jump and dash data.

I’m not sure how to go about accurately counting the frames though, as in, knowing when to stop counting when the character is up and vulnerable after knockdown. There’s all kinds of superfluous animations going on, even if they’re holding down or whatever… maybe set them to jump? Make them block a meaty FB or something?

Also, when do I start counting? From the point of impact, or when Ryu recovers and is able to act?

I think we’d also have to do it for many characters? Don’t different characters get up at different speeds? I always forget which characters are different…

Hakan for example, gets up 5 frames later than everyone else after a face-down knockdown I think?

I think this is how you should go about it. Lets use sweep as an example.

Start recording. In training mode, select Gen as your character and Evil Ryu as the other character and play it back. Record ER doing a sweep to knock Gen down. As Gen, hold up as soon as you get knocked down. Stop recording.

All I’ll need you to do is do the above with sweep, HK Axe Kick, EX Axe Kick, forward throw and back throw. Only characters you have to choose are Ryu, Sagat, and Blanka. If you can get me the files, I can count the frames. However I need the raw files, so you’ll have to upload them to a file hosting site.

If you want to count the frames…

[details=Spoiler]If you want to count the frames, take the vids and open them up in Quicktime. The arrow keys will let you move the vid one frame at a time. As long as you record the vids at 60fps and open the raw vids in Quicktime, you’ll get an accurate frame count

Start counting from the point of impact, until the frame right before the character jumps. Then subtract the recovery frames of the sweep from the amount of frames it took the character to wake up. That will be the frame advantage we have.

(Ex: sweep has 7 frames of start up, 2 active frames,** 27** frames of recovery. The sweep still has 27 frames of animation before you can do anything else, while the character is still on his back. Let’s say it took a character 80 frames to get up from the knockdown, starting from the first frame of impact to the frame before the jump (I know it’s at least more than 67 since you can safe jump after a sweep. ER’s jump is 4+36). 80 - 27 = 53. From that 53 we can find out what moves we need to whiff to time safe jumps perfectly.

It’s 2 types of wake up, face up and face down. I think all of ER’s knockdowns leave his opponent face up though. If this is the case we’d only have to record knockdowns against Blanka, Sagat and Ryu. Here’s the chart.

Face Down:
33F (+2F): Blanka, Yang (2F invincible bug)
32F (+1F): Sagat, Cammy, “Neutral stick” Gen (with 1F invincible bug)
31F (+0F): Others

Face Up:
20F Adon (1F invincible bug)
21F Others, “Neutral stick” Gen (with 1F invincible bug), “Neutral stick” Yang (with 18F invincible bug)
22F Blanka, Dhalsim, Claw, Sagat
26F Hakan
[/details]

[Nos99]

frame right before the character jumps. Then subtract the recovery frames of the sweep from the amount of frames it took the character to wake up. That will be the frame advantage we have.

What about hitstop, and the remaining active frames? Or is recovery calculated after the first active frames minus hitstop?

I’m assuming you’re getting the recovery frame count from pre-existing info…

Regardless, when I get some free time I’ll do some recording… thanks for the wake-up info too, I always forget that stuff :looney:

[Mafamaticks]

If it’s not a multi hit attack, the rest of the active frames are converted into recovery frames. As far as hitstop, I just need to know how soon a character recovers before I do. I’m using the SRK wiki for all of that. I appreciate the help. This will be really useful

[Nos99]

Ok finished testing…

Here’s the results:Evil Ryu Frame Advantage After Hard Knockdowns

EDIT: I also put in some results for tatsu > DP > FADC > Axe kick… However, I think these may vary depending on how you do the juggle (?), but I wanted to know anyway. Repeat testing gave same results, so good enough for me lol

[Mafamaticks]

Ok finished testing…

Here’s the results:Evil Ryu Frame Advantage After Hard Knockdowns

EDIT: I also put in some results for tatsu > DP > FADC > Axe kick… However, I think these may vary depending on how you do the juggle (?), but I wanted to know anyway. Repeat testing gave same results, so good enough for me lol

^^^ Post of the fucking year. Don’t give a damn if it’s February. I’m calling it now.^^^

Just tested the data out. It’s official.

Here’s what we’ll do with the data.

Back throw leaves ER at +55 (with the last frame being vulnerable for the opponent)
ER’s jump is 44 frames if a jumping normal was used. (4 airborne, 36 jump, 4 frame recovery)
ER’s crouching MP is 4 startup, 4 active, and 8 recovery. 16 frames from start to finish.

44 +16 = 60.

Guile was knocked down for 55 frames. From frames 56-60, reversal Flash kick is coming out, becoming active on frame 61

60 < 61

Therefore, after back throw, you can whiff cr.MP and jump in on Guile and block before his flash kick comes out. This was already tested to be a tight safe jump setup (as the math shows, you don’t have a large window of error).

Now we have to hit the lab and work this math to figure out frame perfect meaty attacks and safe jumps.

[Someguy92]

You guys wouldn’t happen to know the frame advantage/disadvantage after
Shoryuken FADC
Hadouken FADC from c.mk
Lvl1 FADC
Lvl2 FADC
would you guys?

[_gognito]

Guile was knocked down for 55 frames. From frames 56-60, reversal Flash kick is coming out, becoming active on frame 61

As far as i know in sf4 series when it says Startup 4(guile’s flash kick) it means that its first active frame is to the 4th Startup frame.
If it wasnt like this then Evil Ryu’s 1 frame link combo wouldnt be possible:
Ryusokyaku(MK),cr MP

Ryusokyaku(MK):+4 on hit
cr MP:4 start up

[Dannkk]

You guys wouldn’t happen to know the frame advantage/disadvantage after
Shoryuken FADC
Hadouken FADC from c.mk
Lvl1 FADC
Lvl2 FADC
would you guys?

I don’t think this is totally acurate, but…

-1
-0
-1
+4

[Nos99]

ER’s crouching MP is 4 startup, 4 active, and 8 recovery. 16 frames from start to finish.

It’s actually 15 frames. The startup count actually includes one active frame. So the total framecount formula would be: Startup + Active + Recovery -1 = Total Frame Count

As for using the numbers to find safejumps, to find a perfect (4-frame) safejump all we have to do is:

x + 40 = Value from knockdown chart

…and solve for x using combinations of Ryu’s moves.

I’ve already gone through them, and this is what I’ve come up with so far: Evil Ryu Hard Knockdown Safejump Setup Chart

I tried to only use single attacks (just-framing a bunch of whiffed attacks doesn’t seem too practical to me?), and if I couldn’t do that I used dashes as well (because they’re easy to do perfectly).

This doesn’t take into account distance safejumps of course (to safejump even 3-frame DPs) but I guess we’ll have to figure those out on our own?

[DeathGun]

the back throw setups worked fine, but none of the DP FADC AK worked here, the j.K missed everytime (the opponent is still invencible by the time the jump kick should be hitting).

[Nos99]

Yeah, I sorta figured the juggles would be wonky… since they’re gonna vary.

I find it hard to believe that there is a 4 or more frame variance though, so I can’t see how ALL of them missed?

I actually haven’t even had a chance to test any of those setups though, so I appreciate the peer review… I’ll fool around with it when I get home.

[DeathGun]

Yeah all the 4 of th missedem missed, my safe jump Kick missed the chars. Im buffering the axe kicks to try and get them out in the first possible frame after the FADC.
Id like to know if the height ER hits the dp after the tatsu have any influence on the time the opponent will touch the ground after the Axe kick, Visually it doesnt matter, but Its hard to judge anything based only on what im seeing on the screen.

[DeathGun]

Just found out that using a whiffed sweep after the setup against blanka will result in a safe jump against him, everything he does gets stuffed or misses (the ex vertical ball loses or misses, it probably depends on the time you hit the sweep or the j.HK)

[Nos99]

“Stuffed or misses”? Neither of those things should happen! Haha

Can you also state exactly what setup you are doing when you post testing results? It really helps to narrow things down…

And yeah, I would bet that their height during the initial DP matters (I originally test starting with a LK tatsu into DP). It may even be completely character specific too, as different characters may hit the ground sooner/later depending on how their hitboxes interact with the ground/Ryu’s foot/etc.

[DeathGun]

cl.HP xx MK axe kick, c.LP xx tatsu, dp xx HK axe kick

[Someguy92]

How do you get the HK axe kick after dp? lp DP?
How do you guys land ultra? Lp dp trades waaay to much if not outright loses. Only thing I can think of is MP dp xx Ultra 1 but the risk of getting baited is too high. How do you combo it? c.mk xx hadouken xx u2?
edit- [media=youtube]mCZotC5TBoQ[/media]
Naga is doing double shoryuken after lk tatsu. Is that just showoff or is that actually better? Is it character specific?

[DeathGun]

I’ve done the Cammy unblockable a few times but I must say it wFas very hard. I probably landed 3-4 times in the 20 or so minutes that I kept trying to do it. Getting Evil Ryu to hit a cross up HK isn’t hard, it’s timing it perfectly to make the unblockable work that’s infuriatingly hard. Unless we can figure out the timing, it’s practically useless because even if you hit the cross up HK that isn’t the unblockable, it won’t hit if blocked as a cross up.

This post was in another thread but I decided to follow this conversation here to avoid the polution in that other topic.

The jHK is only hitting when I delay the whiffed sweep a frame, so i think the whiffed sweep isnt a perfect setup for the unblockable. Anyway, a delayed sweep allows you to hit j.HK in front of Cammy and a j.MK to hit in the back, and it worked with different timmings for the delayed sweep, so its a nice stuff afterall.

In the corner the J.HK hits at the front and lands behind Cammy if she blocks (not sure if it works with with both a 1frame and a 2 frame delayed sweep)

Trying that unblockable I also found out that cl.HP xx MK axe kick, c.MP xx LK tatsu, HP dp xx HK axe kick, whiffed sweep in the first possible frame, forward jump and dive in the first possible frame (i believe its in the first possible frame) gives E.R. a safe jump against Cammy, probably works against the other chars that get up at the same time and have 5f reversals (dunno if there are more chars with such caracteristics). It never crosses up aswell, may lead the opponent to missjudge E.R.'s landing position (works in the corner aswell).

Last one; I didnt manage to do the unblockable with j.HK, but it worked a lot to me with the delayed sweep and j.MK

[Nos99]

Ok, so I test vs Blanka more… On 4 separate instances of tatsu>DP>FADC>Axe Kick(RH), Blanka was knocked down for 74 frames each time, same results as before.

So then I tested the setup, and I’m afraid I’ve got some not-so-good news for you guys. You know how c.HP has 6-frame startup right? Well, it’s actually 7.

I also tested this multiple times, and yeah, unless there’s something wonky with my capture device, c.HP has 7 frames of startup.

Are there any other setups you were trying deathgun? It would be nice to know which timing moves you were using as well. I did notice that it’s really hard to hit blanka on his first frame of getup, he’s really tiny.

[Nos99]

I tested a little further with using juggle into MK-AxeKick, and the results were all over the place. With the same recording, I got different knockdown numbers on a bunch of different characters… So it looks like we won’t be able to rely on a particular go-to setup for that one… Not unless you wanna get character specific and find the knockdown numbers for everyone in that situation. :sad:

I’m not giving up on the MK-Axe juggle just yet tho! It sends the opponent further away when used midscreen, and you recover quicker than RH-Axe in general. So it’s a different knockdown option that may be worth some exploration in the search for good crossups/unblockables?

If you guys notice anything else funny with those numbers, let me know!

[Dannkk]

If they’re getting pushed far away, delay the mk axe kick. You can get them knocked straight to the ground, it just has to be delayed a bit.