I dunno. When I tick into it off of c.mp, sometimes the first input is still during recovery, so the cancel happens really fast. I still end up in range. Can run into other problems too, like getting jabbed out of the f+mk. And you only have 8 frames before it’s active and you’ve put them in block stun.
As to the frame data, my guess is the same as Theli’s. F+mk does have lower body invincibility, and many jump attacks, too. You don’t see that kanji on any of the other jump attacks?
Nope. And if that were the case, why would is specify lower body for the step kick?
Lower body invincible would mean it goes over low attacks. It’s not fully invincible. Was just a guess. Maybe try asking someone that translated the notes for another character.
Was just exploring E.Ryu cuz of his confusing cr.MK frame data on wiki (which, I found out, was clearly wrong), and stumbled upon here.
Like others said, that means strike invincibility. Below his waist he is invincible to strikes (but not necessarily to projectiles) 5~15f.
I recently got into SSF4 hardcore, and I’m trying to pick between Evil Ryu and Oni. I know Evil Ryu has a lot of haters, but from a fair viewpoint, what are his strengths and weaknesses? And what kind of characters does he have trouble against?
I wanted to choose another character as well, originally between E. Ryu and Oni. In the end I settled on Evil Ryu mainly because Oni honest to God is just bad. Oni relies on either gimmicks or pokes to perform heavy damage on opponents. After the first two weeks of playing Oni every decent player I ever played against could correctly block and punish Oni’s Slash gimmick. It also sucked that he couldn’t FADC his Dragon on block**. The only thing I liked about Oni was that he had great anti-air options.
**
What attracted me to putting time into Evil Ryu was he is straight up - the best punisher. Turned out that Evil Ryu had also decent anti-air, good footsies and 2 very good Ultra combos. I’d also like to mention that while not as useful as Shinku Hadoken, I consider Raging Demon to be one of the best Super combos in the game. Honestly the only bad thing about Evil Ryu is the fact that he has 850 life but as he is now, having more would be too good. Some people will complain about the obvious but when you’re snacking on a third of your opponents’ life bar you don’t hear anyone complaining. That sort of damage is broken and isn’t supposed to be abusive.
Be warned man, if you pick up Evil Ryu for the long haul you’re going to lose a **lot **at first. He takes time to understand and isnt the sort of character that can switch on auto pilot. Being a shoto, he naturally has a base set of tools for particular match ups so bone up on the established knowledge we have on him. Punish every mistake you possibly can. If you cannot optimally punish 99% of the time there is almost no point.
Good luck!
Wow, thanks for the insight! Yeah, I came to the conclusion that Evil Ryu was the superior choice after personal testing. I also went into training and fought the computer constantly on hard with both Evil Ryu and Akuma (them fighting each other). 4 out of 5 times, Evil Ryu had the advantage as both player and computer. Akuma has a bunch of neat tools, but Evil Ryu is too aggressive and negates a lot of those tools because he’s so damn good at attacking and punishing. Air fireball is cute, but a smart player will just time it to where he can negate that and properly counter. Demon Flip without EX is so slow that you can easily counter whatever move the Akuma player picks (slow compared to characters like Yun, anyway =P). You really have to abuse EX far too much with Akuma to get use out of him, and other than wakeup, his mixup game is absolutely terrible and he’s so damn predictable it’s laughable. With Evil Ryu, I have very heavy mix-up options, especially on turtles, my number one bane next to good zoning players.
Your thoughts?
This is so true. I’m not exactly the best fighter out there, but I did ok with regular Ryu. My record with Evil Ryu is 80 wins out of 467 total matches… 17.13 win %. I would get beaten by the worst players because I was having a hard time grasping his fundamentals. I’m just now really starting to come into the character and win matches. He’s tough to learn for sure, but once you start to he’s really a lot of fun to play.
That is a good spirit to have. You find out more in losses.
Don’t get it twisted, Akuma is still better than Evil Ryu overall. A key fundamental behind Evil Ryu is punishment, and anyone who says that you can only punish scrub players doesn’t know what they are talking about. The best players in the world make mistakes in game, not necessarily through execution but through guessing things incorrectly. E Ryu needs to get inside the opponent’s head and expose their weakness. Every character can do it, but because Evil Ryu does Marvel-like damage he only has to properly expose 2 incorrect reads and it’s lights out.
Because of this though, turtles will do better versus E Ryu because they tend to abuse safer damage options. Versus a turtle you have to switch it up and rush down, force them to counter/reversal incorrectly and yet again expose them. When E Ryu gets a life lead he can sit back a bit but he can’t run away as well as Akuma or Seth can. Uppercut FADC Ultra is a turtle killer tactic because it gets you up close, grants Ultra opportunities, knocks down etc. When you can predict how your opponent executes their patterns you can easily dissect and decimate them with Uppercut FADC.
If you back dash the FADC when you do ultra 2 in the corner, you will connect properly.
I dont know if this is known yet, but all of ryu’s normal are super cancelable to raging demon. It can be canceled on whiff or when it makes contact.
To add: this should make characters with super armor easier to fight. ie boxer, guy…
If super is loaded, you can also buffer (with Akuma I use LP fireballs so you press LP twice after doing the motion) it when you use fireballs for Rogs that like to tap or EX through fireballs. So as soon as you see it you can press forward + lk + hp and you’ll catch him.
Sorry it took so long. Had the Evola virus. Here ya go. Big ups to my friend, Jason for helping with all of these.
"Overhead f+MP: [Counter Hit] Hitstun +2"
Are you sure about this? I thought I saw a -2. I figured it indicated that crouching characters were inflicted with 2 less hitstun.
"Axe Kick MK: [Air Hit] gives Juggle state/ Armor Break effect"
I wonder what difference this “gives Juggle state” actually makes between MK and HK/EX. I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone juggle after a connected MK RSK.
1.It’s counter hit, not against crouching characters. The note has it’s purpose because medium and fierce attacks usually have +3 frame advantage, so f+mp has one less frame of advantage on counter hit.
Well, the literal translation for the overhead is that, it goes “Flinch Hit: Stiffen +2” and flinch hit sounds like it means counterhit, and stiffen is most definitely hitstun.
And MK Axe Kick giving juggle property is only against airborne opponents (as in, it has to hit them while they’re in “airborne” state). Like if you do a cr.MK xx MK Axe Kick frame trap, and they try to jump after the cr.MK, you’d get the juggle property, I guess. Or even against backdashers, maybe? o.o
Since most special moves seem to gain +2 hitstun on counter-hit, I just assumed that applied to command normals. Anyway, I see I was wrong about it being -2 in the frame data after all.
It’ll be interesting to see someone manage to do it. It seems like the hit takes too long to come out, and recover from, and the hit box isn’t too high. Probably just requires a unique setup. Shame that it’s not likely to be useful.
Just seems like they’d end up too low and the recovery would be too long to really do anything useful. Hopefully I’m wrong and this ends up having a really good situational use of some kind.
So… any chance we can get the frame data stuffed into the wiki? How to do? Who to talk to? ¯_(ツ)_/¯
I can edit the wiki, if you’re certain about the notes’ validity.