I Did… it seems that regular ryu is better than evil ryu simply if you cant link the cr.mp after a dragon stomp.
Also his dp’s are rather lacking… cant combo crouch mk…
ass teleport… and last but not least 850 hp but no good frame traps or good offensief attacks on block…
Edit: but im still maining him anyway…
Yeah… I’m having a tough time with him. I didn’t pick up any huge combos with Ryu, but he just plays so naturally I did pretty well with him. Evil Ryu is a totally different story. Everything of his seems just slow enough or missing the right invincibility frames to throw off my rhythm. I’ve been practicing his combos nonstop in training mode, and I have most of his BnB’s down. I can even link cr.MP after MK axe kick probably 90% of the time. The PROBLEM is actually landing a setup into one of his combos. I thought I would be getting cr.MK xx hadoken xx FADC > cl.HP > MK axe > cr.MP > LK tatsu > HP shoryuken all the time, but since his cr.MK comes out so slow (7 frames vs Ryu’s 5) it’s hard to land one close enough to combo into the cl.HP after FADC. The only combo I can pull off on a semi regular basis is dive kick > cl.MP > MK axe > etc. after a hard knockdown when I catch someone off guard. Anyone have any suggestions for setups?
use c.mp instead of c.mk at that range. it comes out pretty fast and I use it more often then c.mk. C.mk I try and hit at max range since not many things can reach that far.
And I came from being a Ken player. I actually like the amount of options E.Ryu has over Ken.
Outside of punishes and lucky focus attacks, I think the only situations I land the famous combo is the usual forward throw, wiff s.mp, dive kick, cr. lp, s.hp xx combo, because everyone blocks that as a crossup, and frame trapping people with cr.lp, s.hp (or cr.hp, depending on character and amount of leeway I want to try the frame trap) xx medium axe kick, etc.
Anyone kind enough to actually break down why a frame trap is indeed a frame trap?
For example, otori said he frame traps people with cr.lp, s.hp etc, how does that actually work with the frame data? Thanks!
There’s probably a better way to explain it, but a frame trap is a situation you set up, where you have a frame advantage, for the person to press a button and you get a counterhit. Basically they think it’s ok to press that button when it’s exactly what you’re fishing for. I’m sure you’ve come across people who mash jabs (Balrog, anyone?), mash electricity, whatever, between everything you do, and a frame trap is one thing you can do do to punish it. It’s also probably the best way to punish crouch techs.
You need to have an understanding of how frames and frame data work in fighting games, so if you’re not familiar with those things I suggest you look it up on the internet or ask around in Newbie’s Saykio Dojo. If you’re familiar with those things, it’s pretty straightforward. When an opponent blocks a jab, you’re at +2 frame advantage (in E. Ryu’s case), because you recover from the jab animation 2 frames faster than he recovers from his guarding animation. That means that whatever you both decide to do next, you do it faster by two frames. Now s.hp has a 5 frame startup, meaning that after a blocked cr.lp, you (purposedly) leave 3 frames for the opponent to act, and you’re hoping that, in that gap, he presses a button that will start it’s animation but not become active before yours, so you get a counterhit. Now if you do cr.lp, cr.hp, however, since cr.hp comes out in 7 frames, you’re leaving a huge window of 5 frames, which is good against some characters, who have slower normals, and delayed crouch techs.
Of course there’s risk to frame trapping…invulnerable reversals (ie: mashed shoryukens) will ruin your day and in certain circunstances or against some characters it’s so hard to frame trap them that it might not be worth to try (for instance, Balrogs mashing with that godlike jab. If you mess your timing you can eat a combo out of a hit confirm). You have to judge your opponent and your risk before doing this kind of stuff.
That’s pretty much it, let me know if I need to clear something up.
You basically named all the ways I land the combo. When they’re to far after c.mk xx hado fadc, for cl.hp, use c.mk xx hk tatsu or sweep. The first hit of eryu’s hk tatsu(the one that stands them up) hits from hella far away and if they’re even out of range of that, use sweep. Sweep still gets you your untechable(ur in the SF4 forum, not marvel lol) knockdown. What you’re missing probably isn’t a setup or combo, just experience with how to use his tools. Focus on learning to play footsies and landing counterhits and kara throws. That’s where his damage comes from. From my experience with eryu, if I can land throws, I will win.
It’s tough to land them, especially against better players, but they gave him every tool possible to do it. I’ve been practicing his c.mk kara throw, and it’s difficult, but some of the situations you can grab them are nice. The two best I’ve found so far is land a f.throw, crouch, c.mk kara throw on their wakeup. That will hit anyone at least once. The other is right after c.lp, c.lp, s.mp xx lk axe kick. Leaves you at the perfect range for c.mk kara throw or c.mp and you’re at +0. That’s really what you want to do, is setup as many of these 50/50 situations as possible. That’s what the s.mp whiff dive kick after f.throw is. You can force them to a point where their best option, is an unsafe option. Like the frame traps Otori is talking about.
TLDR…keep on playing, and focus on fundametals, and you’ll land the axe kick combos much more often.
I really don’t focus on landing that combo. It’s… nice, but in all honesty we do enough damage to not ever NEED to do it.
Usually I land it with the c.mp xx firebal FADC, etc. Either that or cross up s.hp etc. Otherwise I’ll jump in and just do basic hit confirm into lk.tatsu and decide what to do from there. I don’t like having to rely on that one combo to get my damage on. We have so many other ways, out footsing and zoning and whatnot.
That makes absolute sense, thanks otori. Any other frame traps you know of right off the bat? I’m trying the one you mentioned in training mode right now. Getting the hang of it, will allow me to make more sense of the frame data :).
Yeah, this is definitely true. I’m relatively new to playing SSF4 competitively, but I’ve been practicing a lot, watching a lot of matches, etc. Sometimes the biggest challenge is knowing what to practice. Like I got all those combos down thinking I would rape a lot of people and ended up getting shut down by just about everybody because I didn’t understand the essentials, the stuff you’re talking about. Another example, I’ve got his HP kara throw pretty much down, but I never really knew when to use it. So I very much appreciate this advice and will start working on those aspects. Thanks again, great stuff.
For anyone who can’t land the combo opportunity or punishes I suggest reading Maj’s footsie handbook on www.sonichurricane.com
An essential guide on the topic of footsies in fighting games.
I did. So far I’m concentrating on Evil Ryu the most. I use Ken from time to time to try and learn/get used to his new buffs. Feels like a nice change of pace after using Ryu for 2 years.
I totally suck at doing the cMK Kara Throw. =\ Haven’t been able to get it done. Not even once.
aside from mr. naps, there is another e.ryu player out there worth watching (on youtube)??
I’ve done the Cr. MK Kara a couple of times in practice mode, but it’s very inconsistent for me atm, still practicing it though
Kara cr.MK feels like it can be used for some shenanigans, like kara-focus to extend the already huge range on his focus attack, or kara-shoryu, although that sounds pretty useless and difficult. The kara-throw is definitely something to learn though.
As for the kara-demon with Senbukyaku, isn’t it possible to just plink :f::mk:~:lp:~:hp:?
It’d probably take practice, but it looks to be faster than hitting :f::lp: + :mk: x2.
So the full input for that would be :f::mk:~:lp:~:hp: :df: :lk: + :hp:
EDIT: Failed to note something. I didn’t mention plinking :f::mk:~:lp:~:mp: because it might accidentally cancel into a Focus Attack, though I’m not really sure since I can’t plink with 3 buttons well.
The input for demon is lp, lp, forward, lk, hp. They keys to note when trying to make a demon shortcut or kara cancel are that you must have two separate lp inputs. The forward input must come after the second lp, but, it can be any forward input. Forward, down forward, up forward. And that the lk and hp inputs can be pressed at the same time. The shortcut I posted is just the way I do it, I’m sure other people do it differently. For me, it’s just easier to hit lp+mk twice, than to hit lp+mk, lp.
Short answer…no, that wouldn’t work for demon, because you’ve only got one lp input.
And kara uppercut can be useful because it extends the range of the uppercuts cancelable hit. When you’re in a situation where you want to uppercut fadc, but you’re just far enough away that you’ll only make contact after you’re airborne, you can kara uppercut and be able to fadc.
Plinking LP into HP would result in a double LP input. I don’t see anything wrong with it in that aspect, although I’ll admit it’s pretty unconventional. I hope you didn’t confuse it with plinking HP into LP.
Also figured out an easier method even though it was right in front of me. Starting with :f::mk:+:lp:~:hp: works and is easier to input, but :f::mk:+:lp:~:mp: wouldn’t work since it will always cancel into a Focus attack.
EDIT: Looking on Youtube, it’s somewhat similar to pulling off a Tsujinrai Demon, except far more lenient in timing.
Yea, it might work like that for demon. Kind of went over my head, because if you press lp+hp, hp always comes out, but with demon, I guess it wouldn’t matter. I’ll have to try it. Might be able to find an easier way to FADC into demon.
Hmmm… Guys, I need some help. I’m translating Evil Ryu’s frame data notes, but there’s one property that has me mindboggled.
It’s to do with the kanji: 打
The literal translation of this kanji is listed as:
hit
beat
strike
knock
touch
impress
move
These are the three places I’ve seen this kanji used:
Divekick: Frames 1~12: Lover half of body [打]
f+MK: Frames 3-4 Paces [打], 5~ Airborne, 5~15 Lower half of body [打]
Based on these, and the definitions for the kanji, think anyone can take a guess as to what this property may mean?
After this, and I finish the rest of it up, I’ll have it compiled into a text file, so we can have it all added to the SRK Evil Ryu frame data paige.
About the karaDemon on f.MK. Wouldn’t it be better NOT to do it as fast as possible, so you get more distance on it? I personally do it :f::mp:~:lp:~:lp:,:df::lk:+:hp:
The first ~ signifying a plink, and the second ~ is a doubletap using a different finger.Basically, the 3S JiroDemon method.
So… I think I learned something new today.
Did anyone else know that you can special cancel a close lk that has been chain cancelled into as evil ryu? Ryu couldn’t originally do this.
So, you can easily hit confirm into any quick special via c.lk, c.lk, cl.lk XX hado/tatsu/dp/tele as long as you do it fast enough and close enough to get that cl.lk. Not a bad deal there.
As to that kanji, I couldn’t say for sure. It might just denote hit invincibility.