Really liked reading this. Except for the info on Poison, I think she’s way better at zoning than Gouken.
Disagreements/concerns:
Dhalsim: is he high? gouken loses to dhalsim 3-7?
Poison: Gouken can’t outzone Poison anywhere but at full screen and can’t really compete with her at any range except that range. I don’t see how this is terribly different from the Rose match-up TBH.
Blanka: afaik it’s general consensus among gouken and blanka players that gouken loses this match-up pretty badly. personally i hate it. i think a lot of this has to do with how rare a good offline blanka is, though.
Akuma: IMO solid 6-4 for Gouken, but I guess he does have it listed at 5.5-4.5.
Adon: -4.5? Isn’t this considered one of Gouken’s worst matchups?
Ken & Ryu: I think Gouken is one of Ken’s tough match-ups, and this viewpoint has been corroborated by high-ish level Ken players including Chris T. Ryu is a bit harder, but still at least slightly in Gouken’s favor IMO.
Agreed with most everything else, although I think Rose is 2-8 or basically unwinnable of the Rose player is capable of breathing. No Gouken player should ever beat a Rose player who understands the match-up IMO.
Rose’s wake up is trash. She can be option selected to death with ex tatsu/grab/denjin. It’s in your favor once you knock her down and in her favor if you let her escape.
her ex spiral buff makes her wakeup easymode as far as I can tell.
Idk what you’re seeing but she is free to throw on wake up. She has three ways out: Tech, backdash, ex air grab move. All of them can be punished. If she gets out, you may have just lost the round.
Her wakeup is absolutely terrible and throwing it for more pressure is gouken’s saving grace here. I prefer going for back throw as the reward is higher than forward throw and her escape options are the same except she has longer to tech it (you can’t do delayed divekick setups on rose because her air throw catches it, so options other than overhead or throw are pretty limited if she uses delayed wakeup… i guess you could do a perfectly timed 11 frame wait until the MK divekick setup but that’s pretty risky, lol).
The problem though is that you aren’t going to knock a good rose down, and if you do, she only really has to escape the situation one time to get back into neutral where she is a vastly superior character. Her neutral/mid-range game is suffocating for Gouken. Random yolo cr.MP beats basically everything he has at mid range range and whiff punishing it isn’t especially rewarding for you either. She can sit in the mid range just mashing out cr.MP, teching with cr.MP, doing whatever she wants and that, sadly, answers any and all of Gouken’s choices here. Rose’s cr.MP x soul spiral is just everything she needs to beat gouken regardless of skill. Fireballs aren’t totally out of the question but she has a zillion options to deal with them obviously and her choices come in 100 flavors.
Gouken is reduced to an incredibly linear set of tools in this match-up, which is basically whiff punish cr.MP with sweep or your own cr.MP and try to throw on wake-up. Those are viable choices but they don’t sell me on Gouken having any real chance because Rose has all her options at her disposal. If Luffy ever loses to a Gouken player I’ll do something embarrassing and upload the video to youtube.
Cr.mp xx soul spiral is not a block string. It can be ex tatsu’d or ultra’d. Granted, you need to have good reactions but the start up is such that you can look for her to start to turn around and just hit the buttons
That’s possible, but very hard and requires a ton of match-up experience and you’re still not going to get that every time. Maybe once in a while, but it’s not something you can do consistently. It’s also – to be honest – the only way Gouken’s going to get reliable damage in that match-up, if you can even do it, so meh.
Yes, difficult to do but also something you must be able to do.
You know you can meaty her u2 w overhead mp?