Esports, commentary and moving forward

I respect that argument, but disagree. Ask any hardcore fan of any sport and they will say that certain commentors are idiots that do nothing to attract them to what they are watching. Fact of the matter is that many if not most of the hardcore sports fans know as much if not more than the commentors. The reason they aren’t commentors are for different reasons such as lacking communication skills, ability to do interviews, etc. Do they complain about them? Yes. Does it stop the commentors from continuing what they do? Not really.

But really, that kind of commentary is like 15 steps ahead of what I believe is needed. Let’s start with not distancing the FGC with those that want to become fans. The casual players that initially buy the game and have fun with it and buy into the hype. The initial scrubs that can be taught to become real competitive players. As Pravelto commented, the FGC alienates itself. Let’s work on that first. Cut down on the inside jokes and useless comments that have absolutely nothing to do with the game. Then add a little bit of information, no matter how dumb or stupid, because it helps the casual break in. Later, worry about attracting more people and sponsors.

commentary that helps spectators understand the basics of fighting gmaes is nice and all for some of the time but i do not look forward to hearing the same shit i already know year after year

Besides, how basic does the commentary need to go? Do commentators need to mention that dragon punches are invincible and unsafe every 5 matches to make sure any “potential new viewers” that may be tuning in know such facts? I feel like the simple excitement of the footage is going to carry new interest more than explanations, as some have said.

and if you’re worried about the fact that some people think fighting games are brainless mashing, it is not like people usually conclude “oh this is shallow shit” when they dont understand someone’s analysis of a match

I was half sleep posting, my bad…

First of all, I feel that accesibility is not even the biggest barrier the fighting game community has nowadays. There are so many resources, and “easy” games (I state this very, very loosely) I feel that fighting games are way more easily to be understood because of it’s nature. It is two people beating the living crap out of each other. Obviously there are more mechanics and aspects to it such as, “wow, did you see him, he saved his meter this round when he was at a major life defeciet to use it all in this round to seal the deal!” While games such as Brood War or Starcraft 2 are really hard to understand whats going on, unless you invested time into knowing what is going on. While “new comer” commentary is great, it alienates the true fans. I’m sure you know but a lot of people despise the play-by-play commentary in sports, and they would much rather hear color-commentary.

While your idea on the forced break is a decent idea, in practice it sometimes hinders the players. Fighting games are more of a mental momentum-based activity. In boxing, they do this to give the fighters a rest. Instead of using the break, state what happened, such as “Wow, that was a great read on player x’s side” and go into depth after the whole match is over and explain what happened. When players are changing you have all the time in the world (well, not really) to explain what happened instead of ruining the pace of the game.

Your facts about why Starcraft blowing up are hardly true. Many people that follow x youtube SC2 commentator do not even own/play the game, let alone even care about learning the game. They are merely fans of the personality. The biggest reason why Starcraft 2 is doing so well is because it is on an easily accessible platform, with multiple sponsors, and the producing company actually sponsors the game at tournaments. When was the last time Capcom actually sponsored a tournament outside of Evo? (Actually, does Capcom even throw money at Evo?)

Commentary, imo needs 2 people involved. One’s sole intent is to provide color commentary + bits of insightful commentary, while the other commentator is there to provide the juicy information, while still being able to bounce off one another.

Also, Starcraft 2 commentary for the most part outside of a small handful is boring, and absolutely horrible. I kind of feel that Starcraft 2 commentary is a step back in good commentary. Have you ever seen a Korean Brood War match commentated? That is more of the direction I feel that Starcraft 2 needs to go towards. eSports, is not the direction we want to go, Korean Brood War is where we want to go. And funnily enough Korean Brood War is more professional than most eSports streams (as it has its own dedicated tv channels!)

I’m really tired of the “Starcraft 2 is doing, FGC should copy” schtick. Square block into a round hole. There probably are some pieces to take away from them but you have tweak them for FGs, not the other way around.

Honestly, it’s great that every commentator or region has there own commentator style. It’s like a giant experiment to see what what fits where and when.

In my opinion, UltraChen analysis style is great for SF4 but for MvC3, the game is moving way too fast with too much shit happening for that style and you hear them trip over themselves and constantly drop sentences in the middle because something else just happened. How many times have you heard them in the middle of a thought and go “OH HE GOT A HAPPY BIRTHDAY”? NYC commentates Marvel better (when they are commentating); Chris Matrix, Yipes, Megaman Steve, Quotes, Marlin Pie, Liston, and Spooky are all good commentators, I’m glad Spooky just lets them do their own thing when they commentate. I hear people saying Chrisis commentary is good too so I need to check out those streams and see for myself.

I’m glad that they are going to do match analysis vids because it will be way better to break down MvC3 at their own pace instead of the live game’s pace.

Where’s Dogface and Rockerfeller :[

Special Mention to Justin Wong’s commentary on the rare occasions he does do it like the Clockwork vs Neo set

How is it ignorance when you see that stuff a lot? I didn’t say all commentators did that. Also how did I get infracted for racism when I said nothing racist? I didn’t insult anyone or call anyone a racial slur, I simply quoted the kind of things that get said by SOME commentators as an example. So it’s racist to quote a commentator speaking that way, but the actual person saying that stuff is magically not racist? I have no problem with street slang and I’m not saying the commentators need to be all uptight going “pip pip cheerio, why look at that incredible comeback, most splendiferous!”; but I do think some people take that stuff too far and it gives off a very poor image. I know I wouldn’t want to watch a Call of Duty match if the commentators talked like some of the godawful members of that community, unless for some reason I really somehow needed to hear someone find multiple ways to describe how they’d murder gay people while screaming at the top of their lungs.

The commentary may alienate true fans. But true fans will watch it regardless of bad commentary. Commenting for fans that will watch it regardless does nothing for the sport. Doing it for the casual does something.

This is an argument that cannot really be resolved. I think it’s more that we’re used to pressing replay that fast and that’s why there’s a strong resistance. I’m not too sure that giving a 20 second forced break might be that horrible to players once they’re used to the idea.

If that was true, then SC1 would be as popular as it was in korea shortly after it became mainstream. There was a pretty big underground following for it. But it didn’t blow up until SC2 came out. Why? major hype from SC2’s release. There were sponsors for SC1 and a growing community, but it didn’t take off. It took SC2’s release to do it.

[quote="Mizuki, post: 6299403, member: 5449"Commentary, imo needs 2 people involved. One’s sole intent is to provide color commentary + bits of insightful commentary, while the other commentator is there to provide the juicy information, while still being able to bounce off one another.[/quote]

That would work too, IMO. But really, as I stated, there needs to be a shift in how commentary is regarded by everyone in the community so we don’t alienate possible fans.

If someone seriously gets alienated due to commentary seriously fuck em. And if they just wanna watch and not actually show up to the events they have no say in how things involving the event should be done.
[/quote]

SC2 has had a much larger marketing push than SC1 especially in regards to marketing SC2 competitively. Marketing matters to sales more than the product itself.

People who don’t show up shouldn’t have a say on a number of things but the stream isn’t one of them. The stream and the commentary are specifically for people who don’t show up. The people at the event aren’t watching the stream. And you can’t say fuck em for not showing when its still almost impossible to get to pro level in certain geographic areas. This community still has basic geographic holes and as much as forums help video is probably the best way to improve that situation.

When it’s a bunch of smart people working together with some ‘lesser’ things greta things can come from that too. :slight_smile:

I actually checked this when this thread first started and I posted that pic, but there is shockingly low amount of useful non video visuals for fighting games, when you consider the number of graphically skilled people in this community. Besides a few pics of character hit boxes, the pic I posted and character match up charts there really not much out there (my initial search was fairly brief though, hopefully a more in depth search will find a different answer)

The biggest barrier to growth to fighting games is the image problems it suffers from. PC Gamers are snobby, if the game isn’t on the pc its automatically a game that takes no skill to play in their mind. When I’ve tried to introduce people I know to play fighting games the usual response I’ve got is "yeah I remember street fighter, played it in the arcades, all I had to do was mash buttons and I was the best out of all the people I know."
If you want the real casual people to want to play fighting games and want to get better at them. We have to find a way to break down those pre-conceptions.

Interesting article on Kotaku. Basically says that eSports commentary is too boring and filled with too much jargon, but the replies are all pointing out how fighting game commentary isn’t like this and is actually pretty good in terms of keeping folks entertained.

Yes! YES!

If it were possible for Pro Gaming companies and TV networks to strike a mutually beneficial deal, they would do so in a heartbeat.

The main issue is that there is no such deal available, and that the Pro Gaming companies are not in a position to negotiate such a deal. All of the available deals will result in Pro Gaming essentially becoming a subsidiary of the network.

While this situation certainly has some short term benefits (production, viewers, and payouts), there are some long term concerns. The pro gaming companies could easily become dependent on the resources from the networks. The focus could shift away from the core product, and toward competing with other network programming for viewers. Additionally there is the constant fear that some other semi-related programming will come along and make Pro Gaming expendable.

I think blowing it up into ‘we don’t need TV’ or the even crazier ‘TV is not as good as the internet’ is a rallying cry that masks the situation a bit.

TV is definately a long term goal, just not something that can be done from the current position of Pro Gaming. From this position, the best path is to remain independent, strengthen the brand through the internet, and re-evaluate at a later time.


Maybe we aren’t so different after all?

Actually I turned off majors because they put on boring commentators cough some of the main headers of EVO cough

So the weakest believers are those who actually know the game and have played it before ?

And the strongest are those new casuals ?

Makes sense to me .

No, but I’d rather have that then robot/boring commentary, Commentator 1 - “O look his doing a dp” - Commentator 2 - “O my how exciting, shell we golf clap.” Commentator 1 “I say we shell ha ha.” GolfClaps

People who already know whats happening want something more, they want to have fun and laugh while watching an match .

Also, most (if not all commentators) don’t actually sound like that, if your referring to people like Yipes / Etc .

No one would watch a screen with 2 wesker beating on each other, no matter how high-level it is, with no commentary or comments being made . If you think other-wise you’re an idiot or extremely easily entertained .

Kinda getting off topic, thought you do have a point.

Still, the reason I linked that article is because FG commentary does do the things that the writer of that article says that it should do. If there’s any competitive gaming community that does bring the hype and the drama, it’s us.

Of course it would have to be us we subsisted fro 10 years without any real support. Then Capcom came in and since it’s a company of trolls it all works.
I say we build up our own league more than join with MLG for maybe a year or two of support from them. They did it and so can we. If we get a bit more organized. The evo tournament season is a good indicator.