Enemies of the State: MvC3 Match-up thread CURRENTLY DISCUSSING: WESKER

[Gimpyfish62]

We’ll discuss Captain’s matchups - likely we’ll mostly be discussing his BAD matchups. Again, not much information here. Template stolen from Spider-man thread (thanks lol)

Akuma

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Amaterasu NOTES UPDATED

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Alright let’s kick off some discussion here - I’ll start running topics and compile it. Let’s start with a common good basic character here ok?

This week we’ll be discussion Amatarasu herself, aka the dog, aka bolt, aka twilight link, aka many other things people think of.

So… How do you all feel about the Dog?
Here are a few things that I’ve noted through playing with one of my better dog playing friends.

For one, a lot of the time the dogs like to approach with either super jump air dash or regular jump air dash, only when they’re a little closer do you find people doing things on the ground to approach you. It can be tough to stop this approach, especially if you’re used to using l shield slashes to keep people out vs the dog at full screen a lot of the time m shield slash is by far your better option (especially in this match) just to make them second guess their own approach. Once they are in close (and this is somethin I’ve noted many times in the past) you have to for one be careful with your shield slashes or you’ll get hit before you land from the dogs ground normals. The second thing to realize (regardless of your character) is that if you feel like somebody is going to predict and run in to punish your shield slash (which seems oh so safe) you should simply jump and do a down H in the air - that kick is AMAZING. In fact, it’s beyond amazing. The dog has extremely high priority - but this will hit him out of pretty much everything and then you have your own combo starter. After you combo into something like a hyper charging star try to start up a mixup - if you’ve cornered him go ahead and back dash call assist then mixup appropriately.

When the dog is NOT approaching you have to be extremely careful, I actually think this is way harder to deal with as captain, depending on your meter. Sort of like taskmaster or other characters who can projectile camp - you’re going to want to try to super jump and do some wavedashes when you think you can predict a high shot if she’s using cold star. If you don’t have meter try to call your projectile assist before you superjump OCCASIONALLY so you can potentially hit her with something to make her hesitate, be careful about being obvious because that’s just asking for your assist to get punished. If you DO have meter there are some obvious things you can do - and something that is SERIOUS harassment and is VERY important to learn if you want to use Cap. Depending on what character you are playing against this is one of the most irritating and useful cap options you have. If you see somebody throwing out a projectile from full screen and you have meter, H charging star xx hyper charging star. There is almost no projectile fast enough to not get hit by this and it also somewhat depends on their own meter options. If they predict this and they have a physical hyper they can trade or beat your charging star, and if they have x factor they might use it and force your own hand as well. This is basically the number one greatest thing on earth vs a taskmaster who is in the air though, but I digress.

One thing I’ve learned through playing enough people is that they just don’t want to deal with mixups when their character comes in - so for example if you have killed a persons first character and the dog is their second, if they know you like to call an assist and cartwheel with tricky timing to block they might just come in with an air dash. Be ready. Sometimes you should call your assist, dash and cancel your dash with a jump to get up there and hit them. Depending on how far you’ve let them get you can sometimes do (for example) MH l shield slash hyper - or something like that. One thing to be very very careful of though is the dogs stupid grab.

Speaking of the dogs grab - let’s talk about that. The range is really incredibly stupid, you have to be ready to break because of “OPTION SELECT” grab with her air H. A lot of the time the dog won’t even actually be trying to grab you, but you’ll get grabbed and often times comboed or get hit with a hyper in the air.

Dealing with her assists is sort of tough depending on who you are playing. I’m goin to assume your dog assist is cold star for now. Obviously if you’re opponent is caught doing something silly you will sometimes catch her with a l shield slash into whatever, or you might be able to charging star her on reaction - either one of these scenario’s are fantastic and it makes her easy to deal with in that regard - HOWEVER if your opponent calls her in an intelligent way you might have some issues. Let’s say for example your opponent is using dorm or dante - this assist can be extremely tricky, but there are a couple important things to note. If you’re blocking the hits, this assist essentially has two parts. One part is the first shot, then there is a gap in the blockstun, then the rest of it will cause an auto block scenario. The tricky thing is the first two staggered hits. Pay attention to your opponent IN BETWEEN the first hit and the 2nd hit, if you get mixed up there you’re going to eat quite a bit of damage!

That’s all I got (for now) but what are your thoughts? I’m going to (starting after this weekend) have a lot more time to update all of these threads, but I thought I’d kick start this off with some Ammy discussion.

wow lol that was informative! lol just one thing I wanna add is punishing her super. If ammy is on the ground does a random super for chip (which a lot of players do) you have 2 options. The first option is just hyper charging star through it from midscreen away or less. Your second option if your full screen ahead is waiting till after the initial fire of the super and then doing a H charging star to get closer then activating Hyper charging star when in range. This trick really helps because not a lot of people see it coming. well that’s the extend of my knowledge lol

Unfortunately, noone near me plays Amaterasu, so I have little to contribute. The only thing I can add is that her jab is fucking fast, 4 frames crouching and her standing jab may be 3 frames, so watch your block strings when fighting her. I have been seeing some lazy blockstrings ending in crouching H from Captain players, and that’s just asking to get punished. Standing H into Standing S is much much safer out of the corner, and is the natural starter for his main BnB so it’s much better to end that way. This applies for all of the faster characters in fact. His S is still -4, but pushes out well when combined with Standing H and can be natural whiff punishment bait (good players will know Cap is vulnerable, but their crouching L will whiff).

Arthur

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C.Viper

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Captain America

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Chris Redfield

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Chun Li

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Dante

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Deadpool

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Dormammu

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[Gimpyfish62]

Dr Doom

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Felicia

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Haggar

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Hsien-Ko

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Hulk

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Iron Man

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Jill Valentine

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M.O.D.O.K.

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Magneto

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Morrigan

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[Gimpyfish62]

Phoenix

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Ryu

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Sentinel

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She-Hulk

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Shuma Gorath

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Spencer

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Spider-man

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Storm

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Super Skrull

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Taskmaster

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[Gimpyfish62]

Thor

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Trish

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Tron Bonne

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Viewtiful Joe

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Wesker

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Wolverine

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X-23

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Zero

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[Gimpyfish62]

Full screen vs rangers is problems. Midscreen? Not so much and depends on character. Taskmaster + mag beam assist was really tough for me! Midscreen task wasn’t so bad though

Edit: midscreen isn’t so bad because of charging star. But lets say they got chun assist - she’ll eat normal cs all day and then “You’re in for a world of hurt.”

Hyper charging star on silly assists is really good

[Dantarion]

Ive had trouble with Arthur+SentDrones.

The Sent Drones counter my Sent Drone assist, and Arthur just throws shit.
The best way around it I found was to throw shield to hit the sentinel so my sents drones arent nullified, and then charging star.

However, it can be a big problem if the opponent has a beam assist with Arthur as well.

[Gimpyfish62]

A good way I found (not SUPER reliable) was using iron man beam assist to break every projectile ever and cartwheel behind or charging star through if close enough. Projectiles are irritating but I don’t know how to move yet all the way lol

[Dantarion]

Beams seem to be very useful as an assist in MvC3, I may try to change my 3rd character to a beam assist character.

[KowtowRobinson]

Can hyper charging star go through beams? Haven’t had luck with the regular version going through beams yet, someone with a Sent/Mag team with Sent assist and disruptar x N was giving some of my characters problems. To be fair though I’ve never been competitive in VS games before, and haven’t had any time in practice mode yet.

[Gimpyfish62]

check the frame data thread for that answer - hyper charging star beats all projectiles including hyper projectiles

Cap can backflip (cartwheel) through modok’s shield just an FYI for vs modok.

[keo-bas]

Been trying to make Cap my team leader, hes seem real good but I struggle with safe pressuring people like zero and wesker with safe guard assist.
*example
Zero/ ammy ice shoot assist)
Wesker/ Doom stone assist

My team sport dead pool/katama rama assists ( i use this to follow up on from cap’ back throw)
and skrull ( may change him) and stone smite. Tenderizer is godly but I prefer stone mite as its versatile imo. (can also follow up from cap’n forward grab)

[Gimpyfish62]

alright so i’m finding that cap has a weakness against characters that can fly and throw crap at you forever with teleports and multiple hits on all of their projectiles that they throw.

meaning i’m struggling vs phoenix - I really don’t know how to get her when she goes up there - sometimes I can superjump and throw the shield up (hey at least that air hard shield throw has a purpose) but a lot of the time that doesn’t work. Obviously I can use charging star to negate SOME of the projectiles, but a sloppy charging star means a fat combo against captain. If I can read any of the ground spam correctly I can charging star through far enough and cancel that into hyper charging star - but that isn’t reliable enough.

Anyone else have any theories?

Also against certain supers when you aren’t at a range that hyper charging star can normally punish you can sometimes cartwheel and cancel that into hyper charging star to get in easier, I use that to punish Dante’s gun hyper - unless my opponent has enough meter to DHC into either an invincible attack or a counter super from wesker/taskmaster on his side.

this game has a lot of scary stuff. I feel like captain is very solid, but in a game of “everybody is broken” solid isn’t so great still

but nah i’m loving captain he’s treating me very well for now =D

[Gimpyfish62]

Nobody has any input against characters that fly around and throw things at you from those super high angles? It wouldn’t be such a problem if shield slash had more durability points - but it loses to like everything that they could possibly be throwing at you.

Maybe I need a dormammu beam tower assist LOL

[1000DollaSocks]

A good anti air (or dormammu beam tower lol) assist could be really useful. IE, Taskmaster up arrows should catch her nearly any height any distance.

Also, good utilization of dash with crouch cancels will help you get under her or to her, especially with dash-crouch charging star combo.

[Gimpyfish62]

She is almost completely not a problem on the ground - it’s when she chills at the top of the screen chucking multiple projectiles when I have troubles =[

[1000DollaSocks]

Hmm… similar problems with Trish??

[Tahldon]

Gimpy, against people who throw projectiles from upper screen, have you tried normal, jump Air Shield Slash H? It should reach about that high.

My thing with Cap is that I try to control the ground as much as possible. Since he has poor air mobility, I figure that the ground will be his domain, if they touch it, I try to make them pay for it. Phoenix has to come down sometime, just do Air Shield slash to force her to have to try to come to you and if they throw any projectiles within Charging Star (or Hyper Charging Star) range, blitz her.

That’s pretty much been my gameplan against Gok-I mean Ryu, Iron Man, Storm, Magneto, basically anyone with any kind of projectile that rely on it. Air Shield Slash L is your friend too if they try to stay out, if they let you get away with it, keep throwing it out until you get a hit, when you do, the shield will bring them towards you.

Aside from Air Shield Slash L, if they try to meet you in the air, do Air Shield Slash M. If either hits, you can capitalize on it and put in some work to try to get big damage.

Trish… I haven’t quite figured out what to do against her other than to punish her if she tries any low voltage. I usually do Air shield slash M against her if she tries to fight in the air and throw traps. As for her divekick (which is really troublesome, might I add), I try to do hit her with Stars & Stripes M as it keeps invincibility frames and has the least recovery. Stars & Stripes L runs out of invincibility frames before it connects and Stars & Stripes H has too long a recovery period. Other than that, all I can say is not to let her fake you out with Sparda’s reach cause Cap’s normals are pretty bad (slow) compared to what she can toss out quickly.

[Gimpyfish62]

super jump/normal jump into h shield slash is nice because it can hit them out of that position, but it sucks because it has so few durability points. It gets beat by pretty much every projectile possible when they go hit for hit. Sure - you can knock out ONE (ONLY ONE) of phoenix’s projectiles, but it hardly matters as in the time you’ve thrown your shield into her projectile that high (note - you’re NOT going to lose the ending lag because of landing if you’re that high up) she’s already teleported near you and created a mixup. Well, if you’re lucky she’s teleported to you. Otherwise she’s just staying up there being unbeatable for poor old captain america =(

Poor guy doesn’t have super powers - why you gotta be such a bully phoenix? lol

[Auru]

Pheonix is definately a problem for cap, I have trouble keeping her grounded… and it’s a no win situation in a fireball fight sadly, but shes about the only character who can do this so effectively to cap.

One of the reasons I like him so much in this game is all his moves have good properties, I play him on point to keep projectile spammers honest since cap can punish them extremely hard, easy to catch assists in hyper charging star as well

A character I do have some issues with is Wesker, with a decent assist (doom rocks for example) he’s very hard to keep out… and his mix up/teleport game can be lethal if I make the wrong choice with cap… any tips out there? I generally try to cover myself with Haggars lariat, it’s pretty good most of the time for cap on defence

[SonicFlash122]

[media=youtube]AibDLdYRxrY[/media]

Projectile counter. CS goes through every projectile in the game to my knowledge. Probably works better with the right assist to help get into :h:.CS range. I’m sure someone has already figured this out though, just didn’t see a visual anywhere.