I think Rose v Elena is 6-4 Rose’s favor. Her st.mk beats all of Elena’s buttons even slide and B+HK. She’s so solid that healing doesn’t even matter. I played a match where an Elena healed 3 times and still got the win. (Too bad the replayed got drowned out) I’ll try to add more replays to the video thread too, mainly to have a more accurate discussion on what Elena players should and shouldn’t do.
I agree with this so much. Rose St.mk does blow up a lot of Elena tools and because you can’t throw her in that animation it makes the range on your back throw or tick throw useless. It also doesn’t help that Rose new damage output and Elena low health do not mix well together.
Eek my grammar sucked that last post (I mean I still got the win), but I wasn’t even talking about her cl.mk (the unthrowable one) I meant her far mk, which blows up all of your buttons. She does everything Elena wants to do but better thanks to her moves having invulnerable and crush properties. It’s actually pretty sad.
What do you guys think are her winning MU’s at this point?
From what I’ve played I can only really say she wins against Blanka, Deejay, Balrog, Dhalsim, and Viper(which will soon be disadvantageous once that patch comes out)
…and now I’m even questioning how advantageous the Balrog MU really is. I used to think it was a 7-3, until I began to notice how good Rog’s sweep is vs all of Elena’s buttons. Now I’m thinking it’s a 6 - 4 or even less.
Dee Jay, Viper (obvious reasons) and kinda Dhalsim. I’m not really buying into the Rog match up being in Elena’s favor just yet. I feel like her keep away is almost as good as his up close pressure. Right now I feel it’s 5-5. Other than that I guess Dan.
…It is. Main reason why Im heavily reconsidering my overall thoughts on the MU.
I’ve run many offline sets against a great local Rose. It’s definietely not in Elena’s matchup, but it’s still too early to say it’s 6-4 for Rose. I’d say 5.5-6 for Rose. Couple of things to note:
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Cr.lp punishes soul spiral, unless it is properly spaced. The spacing isn’t too hard to get for a good Rose player, as it is gonna be her “sweet spot”. This is basically at her mid-range distance that she wants to be at, where she can continuously pressure with cr.mp/cr.mk xx soul spiral. If you see the soul spiral being safely spaced, you can still sneak a cr.lp after. It will probably be blocked, but this resets the situation.
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EX Rhino Horn is 100% invincible to projectiles. THIS INCLUDES SOUL SATELLITES. If Rose activates U2, and tries to throw a fireball to pressure, you can EX Rhino horn on reaction. It’s actually pretty sweet. Don’t do it otherwise, unless you see Rose mindlessly dashing in, or you have a hard read.
-m spin scythe is punishable by Rose’s cr.mp, unless properly spaced. Try not to throw it out too much.
Those are my personal notes on Rose. I don’t have to mention Elena’s gameplan, as you all know it. Try to open Rose up with high/low mixups ending in U1 if possible. Elena definitely outdamages Rose, but Rose has better pokes, easy. The main pokes that i’ve found the most success with are cr.lp, cr.mp, and st.hk. St.mp AA’s Rose pretty consistently.
S.HK. Cr.lp combos afterwards, and cr.mp combos if its a CH. It looks to be airborne earlier than the 6th frame (B.hk) so it’s still useful. Definitely has longer range as well.
s,hk goes airborne later than b.hk. I believe it’s 1 frame later.
I know trust me. I already did a write up on how I feel on st.HK vs B+HK and Elena in general. But it’s airborne later and her lower body moves off the ground later. It only feels like it’s airborne sooner because it has a faster start up.
As for the EX RH vs Rose U2, honestly I just mindlessly slide in as Rose until I’m in Elena’s Slide range then I st.mk, which beats out EX RH and slide.
Also her st.mk beats your cr.lp so after Soul Spiral I just st.mk > cr.mp. And Rose isn’t really out damaged by Elena’s if you look at how she gets the damage, the only time Elena gets way more is if you get a heavy punish or a jump in combo.
It’s definitely 6-4 though.
I don’t see how the rose match is so bad. Slide on reaction can beat fireball, Elena has great tools to deal with her slide, and she has to be perfect with soul spirals cause c.lp is a great punish for whiff or block. You can try and sneak in some focus back dashes on her long range pokes to build up a heal.
Because her buttons are better than Elena’s lol. It’s not crazy bad it’s just a 6-4 matchup.
all of Roses buttons are better than Elena’s really. A rose player doesnt even have to use fireballs in the MU.
If you’re in range of cr.mp is faster than most of roses pokes. So you’ll beat them out on start up. The only poke of roses that’s faster is cr.mp but that will lose to Elena cr.mp and doesn’t have the range.
Her st.mk is invincible from frame 3 to lows and also beats out cr.mp clean, and at distances where it’d be beaten by Elena’s cr.mp Spirals are safe-ish but cr.lk beats it out.
Also Rose’s cr.mp has more range and has a hitbox which sticks out in front of her hurtbox lol.
I’ve beaten s.mk in training mode plenty of times. Is cr.mp considered a low? Also her cr.mp didn’t seem to have that much range on it. I remember there’d be times her cr.mp would whiff but Elena’s would hit.
No it’s not but the hitbox beats her cr.mp and crushes her slide,cr.mk, cr.lk, makes cr.hk whiff, beats cr.lp etc is what I was getting at.
And Rose’s cr.mp has more range. You’re hitting her extended hurtbox after her cr.mp whiffs. It’s pretty easy to test out just set the dummy to record have it spam cr.mp then walk into a range when it barely whiffs. Set the dummy to crouch and Rose’s cr.mp will still hit even if you take a bit of a step back.
Ah I see I think I was hitting the recovery and not really noticing. But I still feel cr.mp can challenge rose. The range on Rose cr.mp is indeed superior. Staying outside of that range and then catching her limbs is pretty good. I also tried st. Hk which worked pretty well and cr.hp also b.hk. I’m probably going about it the wrong way. Well timed and spaced MS beat the cr.mp and st.mk. But like I said I’m probably doing something wrong. I think Elena has the normals to match rose it’s just a matter of finding the right button.
Yeah I think Kit is right, Rose’s cr.mp beats Elena’s. However, the matchup didn’t feel too bad to me, I’ve played about 10 hours of it over tthe past few weeks. I don’t think it’s as bad as 6-4. I get tons of mileage from whiff punishing with cr.mp xx ex mallet, seems like Rose leaves her hurtbox extended a lot. It’s rough when she gets close though, her st.mk is bananas.
Something I just stumbled upon Elena’s RH can go over all versions of chuns projectile. The timing is weird but it works.