I would honestly like to know what makes you feel it’s not an issue. To me it’s like hearing a Ryu/Akuma player saying oh you fell out of my EX tatsu well it’s ok not a big deal. Oh I lost matches for that? Well it’s no big deal I clearly was outplayed when I hit but some weird attack interaction costed me the game.
It’s simple man. You do a move that is multihit all hits should land near point blank. Period. If you do cr.lpx2, cr,mp SS it shouldn’t be a gamble. In regards to HK lynx the first hitbox of the first attack should not have more range than the second attack then the third attack should have more than the second but less than the first but more than the fourth which has slightly more range than the 2nd but less than the third. That’s nonsense especially for a move that is -13 on block dude. It also diminishes the effectiveness of her FADC off of it purely because it randomly whiffs at inopportune times, and the input priority on her moves should be adjusted. All of that should be considered an issue and is an issue. Decapre (and many other charaters) can’t jab Elena more than once otherwise it whiffs that’s an issue. Sagat high tiger shots didn’t need near identical recovery to his low ones. Rose shouldn’t be able to cancel normals into soul throw. Dee Jay shouldn’t have had his LK sobat nerfed. Poison should be able to TK her fireballs (Ie no jump glitch).
Deeper understanding of a character is one thing, but some things about characters just don’t make any sense no matter how you break it down, and Elena has a lot of shit that doesn’t make sense.
Also on page 7 all you said was this in regards to where your opinion on Elena. which doesn’t have much to do with her special moves being crud.
@kitl19 you must of missed the bolded part. But that’s fine.
Then there’s also this
But you’re right I’m spending too much time defending Elena. So it’s whatever
Also its not a gamble when dealing with Elena. First like take SS it whiffs on some crouching characters. Even against some characters where it normally hits while they’re crouching it will whiff. Reason distance and how some characters duck really low. So if the Bnb is cr.lp x2 cr mp xx mk SS that will whiff on some crouching characters. I haven’t had it whiff on any standing characters.
The solution HK lynx tail so if the bnb on crouching characters become cr.lpx2 cr mp xx hk lt. This works on all characters I believe. I haven’t really tested everyone but I believe it works vs all crouching characters. You’ll get the full lynx tail. It won’t work on standing characters. Reason the difference between crouching and standing characters hit boxes I believe. Also distance. You can remove a jab to get it to work but even then I don’t believe you’ll get a full hk lt.
Mallet smash will go over some crouching characters head if you’re too close. Solution use 3 normals in a string to hit it may whiff on crouching juri still. So cr. Lp X2 cr.mp ex mallet smash should consistently work. Also if you’re poking someone there’s a chance that mp xx EX Mallet Smash will go over their heads. The solution cr. Mk the problem cr. Mk my whiff because of the move back.
EX Lynx Tail the further away you are the less likely you’ll be to have the move fully connect. So instead of cr.lpx2 cr.mpxx ex lynx tail you remove a jab and it works.
Hopefully this helps someone and takes away some of the mystery or “gamble” involved I’m Elena’s combo routes.
I thought we were referring to stunned opponents. Elena should not be jumping in on someone with how floaty her jump is
As far as wonky hitboxes they are a problem because the game just came out. She does have work arounds to all the issues. If the opponent is crouching their horizontal hurt box is naturally wider while their vertical hurt box is lowered and vice versa. Because of the nature of her moves this simple fact is paramount for players to know. If you want max damage from crouching position then you’ll hit confirm into EX mallet smash to force the stand then finish from there.
As for FADCing that changes as well. Really you should be FADCing from :hk: lynx tail as you get the most hit stun from it. Spin scythe is a good choice at further ranges where lynx tail won’t connect. I feel once people get the understanding of how to consistently connect her funky hit boxes this won’t even be an issue any longer
I am talking about a stunned opponent. Hitting j.HP at the lowest point possible still applies. I probably didnt word what I said correctly. I meant an observant opponent as in an opponent that notices s.HP whiff if you didn’t time your j.HP properly.
I hate the part where people try to tell me something I already know, but completely miss the point I was making. Especially when they say the same thing I said on day one. Like so
So you acknowledge that EX lynx gets most if not all of the hits, but HK Lynx not doing the same isn’t an issue…? Iunno maybe it’s because I’m spoiled from seeing a better version of all of her moves in another game.
Not to be a jerk but those safe jumps were kind of known, at least by me and my peeps, since the first 2 days… but if no one else knew or shared it then I’m glad you posted it then.
Edit: And dude I know there are differences between crouching and standing hurtboxes it certainly doesn’t excuse the cruddy hitboxes that should compensate for that. I mean none of us work for capcom, but would you make the first hitbox bigger than the second but smaller than the third which is bigger than the fourth which is slightly bigger than the second…? I mean there’s no logic for that.
Elena’s b.hk (Round Arch) is pretty weird. Normally +1 on hit, 0 on block. On counterhit, it’s also +1. If the opponent is crouching, sometimes they will be hit by later active frames, giving additional advantage.
Elena and Chun-Li will always block the third active frame if crouch blocking, leaving you +2. At certain ranges (as close as possible for one), Elena will be hit by the third active frame, leaving you +3. At seemingly all ranges Elena, Chun-Li, and Cammy will be hit by the third active frame if they have just been hit by an attack causing them to do a crouching reel animation, giving you +3. Against Elena pretty much any attack works, against Chun-Li and Cammy only s.hk, b.hk, cr.mp, and cr.mk seem to work, as well as HK Lynx FADC. It’s pretty easy to tell what active frame you are hitting with by the position of Elena’s foot, so it’s feasible to confirm this into c.lp.
It’s worth mentioning I only played with this against Elena, Chun-Li, Cammy, Gen, Yang, Rose, Ryu, and Hugo, and the ones I didn’t mention above seemed to always be struck by the first frame. Didn’t test anyone else.
This may seem like pretty worthless information, but b.hk always being +2 on block against a crouch blocking Elena and Chun-Li is pretty helpful, especially since Elena needs any help she can get in the Chun-Li matchup. If you manage to confirm into a combo off of this you’ll definitely blow some minds.
Well, yeah, I do. I think it’s a huge deal that Elena has a low-hitting attack that is not consistent against standing opponents. I also think it’s a huge deal that Elena has an overhead special that is not consistent against crouching opponents. Now granted, I am assuming that Elena is meant to be a mix-up character considering that’s how she’s been played since she was conceived, and a mix-up character is only as good as their strongest low AND their strongest high. If you just have one and not the other, then you aren’t a mix-up character.
Now, without further ado, more trolling.
Spoiler
Elena’s Lynx Tail whiffing in USF4, and the crouching-during-motion position beforehand.
I honestly always thought Elena had obscene range on that attack in 3S, but it must have just been because the screen is 4:3. Biggest thing I noticed, though, is that in SFxT, if the ‘whoosh’ effect touched the opponent, they were coming down. The hitbox wasn’t necessarily in her feet, but in the special effect left by her feet. Doesn’t seem the case any longer.
And yeah, the H Lynx Tail never had parts in either 3S or SFxT where if you were at point blank range, or just a little further back, or anything, parts would whiff. It was only somewhat inconsistent if you are at the very edge of connecting, but even in 3S, if hit 2 connected, hits 3 and 4 would as well.
If we talking stunned then that kinda falls on the player at that time for not knowing or doing it incorrectly. Can’t be too mad at that if it’s really the players fault.
I have more success playing a turtle Elena because U2 lets me restore a lot of the health. The only problem is the longer the Match goes on the more they seem to realize my play style and then just go for big damage asap and just rush me down. So it works well but sooner or later people will figure out how to punish U2 more effectively.
I’m pretty sure we will get a Post Evo patch that will fix all the bugs and then after that Elena will be bottom 10 for sure if we lose her hitbox it really is the only thing helping me in the Viper MU.
We already know Capcom is planning to patch the game, and we already know that Elena’s hurtboxes are going to be a priority. It would be foolish to just close our eyes, ears and mouths and let them take half the good things about Elena away without at least fixing some of her major problems.
I mean, look at USF4 Bugs and improper set character data list. *SUBMITTED TO CAPCOM!* . You already see characters like Akuma have these sort of ‘1 hit connects, the rest miss leaving him vulnerable’ things listed. That didn’t happen because Akuma players just sat on their hands, they had to report it. Do you really want Akuma to get stronger while Elena just loses advantages?
I’m sure all the relevant parties are aware. The character is clearly unpolished, along with most of the actual game; I am confident the console release will come with a “finishing touch” that addresses the major issues.
Dwelling on this matter for now isn’t very productive. I don’t know what I can tell you to convince you that they know, but they know.
So let’s not worry about that and let’s focus on WHY B.:hk: DOESN’T GET A CH BONUS UGH
Do you know how many crouch techs I blew up with that move today and still couldn’t capitalize?!
Goes under most. It doesn’t go under sagats low tiger shots, Juri’s low fireballs, or Chun’s fireball. You can’t react to a fireball with slide like you could in the arcade version, it’s based on prediction now.
