i find hakan to be mad easy. his command grab is slow and has no range to you can keep pressure on him kinda easily. to avoid oil combination hold on his wake up i like to mix it us between cr.hk and forward mk. Both of these avoid the ultra , beat most of his other options on wake up(ex grab may get you once in a while)and most hakans waste the ultra on forward mk thinking its airborne. If you land forward mk then you can cr.lk to cr.mk to low rsf. his oil means nothing to fuerte cuz you can just run away tilll it runs out. if he try to oil up again while you are running away then run in hit him outta the oil animation and run away again. i think the match up is in fuertes favor
I remember Boxer back dashing out of my slide on his wake-up in vanilla. So I just tested it to be sure in the training mode.
I recorded El Fuerte doing a meaty slide during Ryu’s wake-up. I was able to backdash out of it completely, even in the corner.
However, it does work if the slide is delayed and is made not as meaty.
This one I tried in the training mode yesterday. I recorded El Fuerte doing a tortilla, and then doing a cross-up j.fp on Ryu. I was able to backdash the cross-up j.fp as Ryu. El Fuerte falls behind him, probably recovering about the same time.
I tried various timing. There was one instance where backdash got stuffed, but the cross-up timing as a whole was off, since Ryu could just walk forward out of it.
Even when the cross-up j.fp is performed with good timing (i.e. if I was holding towards, Ryu would block, not walk), backdash makes it whiff.
God forbid you stop jumping when he has ultra.
I’ve baited hakan ultra two just with picadillo jump and by holding back after wall dive. Hakan grabs while oiled up has deceptive range. Hakan can combo ultra 2 off jMP.
His oil slide breaks armor but is very unsafe.
His airthrow. That’s the big question. I want to know who’s is better when he is oiled and unoiled.
Don’t forget. When he is oiled he can move forward and back during focus.
I wouldn’t sleep on him. I think he won’t be a hard match. But that doesn’t mean to get reckless.
Didn’t fight enough Hakans yet, but so far it seems like the matchup floating somewhere between the range of 4.5-5.5 to either Hakan or Fuerte’s favor, hard to tell now since Hakan will take a while to be figured out by his mainers. Yes his U2 is very annoying but can be baited, its not something totally new for Fuerte to bait ultras.
@windbreaka: I think it depends on the backdash of each character, some always get stuffed and others need a slight timing delay, but in general slides are one of the more consistent ways of dealing with backdashes. Regarding j.fp, if it whiffs you are mostly in a neutral position, and if it hits you get RSF, so its a decent option too. Timing can always be tricky with our luchador though lol keep it up man and thanks for the testing.
I’ve won a lot more matches with U2 than before. People just don’t think of El Fuerte as a close range Ultra user. And when they do after experiencing his U2, they stay more away from him, which works in our favor. Bison FOR ONCE gets scared of getting closed to me. Thank God. I mean, U1 is still ok, but I enjoy being able to safely execute the motion of the U2 out of a block, as well as not having to time U1 when people jump. At least with U2, you can tell when someone’s coming to the ground in order to know when to use U2.
What they needed to do to keep people using ultra 1 was buff that thing. U2 doing more damage plus having more uses just really makes it hard for me to want to use u1
I really doubt that TKD’s absurd ability to land that ultra damn well EVERY time was warrant enough to nerf it.
yes it still can thats what i said in my post before amigo … you can jab into more pressure tactics …
I WILL SAY THIS AS WELL 
… Fuerte can STILL land ultra every time … the option select seems a bit easier to do . Due to the tortilla change when ppl jump neutral OR away you can STILL either
- Airthrow
- EX guac
- U1 OR U2
I have put this ALL to the test … it worked in vanilla SF … and they still do in SSFIV , but it feels soooo much easier to do vs just about everyone !!!
I’ve only played a little so far of super, and the new Tortilla is bugging me at the moment. Feels so much less satisfying with the crappy new sound mixing on it AND less damage. Just have to get used to it I guess. It appears to land very slightly faster though.
My way of punishing wakeup dashing is using delayed Fajita Buster. Do it a bit late and hold back on the stick. If they forward dash, you get them, and if they back dash, just tilt the stick towards them on reaction and you get them too. With Tortilla nerfed, I now have even more reason to do this, even though it loses to so many other things.
After playing with Ultra 2 for a while, I still like U1 just because it’s got more lol factor.
Tried a bit of Gordita sobat, and it feels almost the same.
Can’t you also airgrab a wake-up backdash? Score a knockdown, backrun-stop-jump in (fake tortilla), airgrab punish that foo.
Safe tortilla is still pretty solid, like paper said it works on everything it worked on before, but the timing on some characters is a little different. Against ryu you have to run back a little farther than before, etc. Against most of the cast it is unchanged.
After testing it for a long while, as far as I can see it is completely impossible to grab ryu out of his dp now with tortilla. I sat there testing safe tortilla setups on ryu for like an hour yesterday, never happened once. He is airborne on the first hitting, vulnerable frame and unthrowable. I’ll need to see a vid of this happening to believe it at this point. Not like it matters since this is actually a good thing and not bad, instead of getting a tortilla worth of damage now you get a full rsf or ultra.
Now that I have had time in the lab, I am actually pretty sure that the akuma match has gotten better. It is now positively suicidal for him to wake up with a teleport when you have ultra stocked and you take away several of his normals, he has to pay a little attention now actually instead of pressing any button he wants at any time. The problem with the Ultra-based balancing of fuerte is that he is still totally free to akuma until you get ultra, then all he has to do is bait the ultra and now he not only gets to punish it but now you are totally free again. That’s a much better chance than before where you were just totally free full stop but it is still quite a bad match. At least now when you knock him down you don’t have to worry about him getting away so easy.
Rufus match is still nasty, his U2 is actually pretty good against fuerte’s tortilla and splashes, however its startup is EXTREMELY slow and you can both safe jump and safe slide it easily. Also now when Rufus does a messiah to your slide and gets the partial messiah that goes over you, you get a free ultra there without having to guess if he will do the lk flip away or not.
Safe tortilla, U2 on whiff is just simply nasty nasty shit. No more backdashing for 3/4 of the cast.
Certain characters can’t focus you anymore at all because their backdash doesn’t have enough airborne frames, which means that every focus you see is a free ultra. This wasn’t the case with U1 which was totally escapable by all characters with a well timed backdash. Even if they backdash out quickly before you activate you’ll still get them because of how ungodly fast this ultra is.
Low FP is a great anti air for people right over your head, but it failed against jumps that were more out in front of you, we had a hard time anti airing from this position. With U2 not anymore. Also, unlike antiairing with U1, it is possible to do U2 so late in their jumpin that even their airborne specials like a tatsu can’t save them anymore.
Yeah, Ultra2 really changes the game. I’ve even found myself holding onto it when I have the opportunity to use it depending on how the match is going if only because the threat of it limits the opponents options so much.
@@BlueGuile - ggs btw, even though the mirror kind of makes me hate playing hah. I’ll probably pick someone else if I run into you again in ranked, I’m not trying to use that much energy when I’m playing randomly online heh.
Couldn’t agree with you more.
Halcyonryu: now that you’ve had more testing time do you still think Fuerte will be at the bottom?
Also. How do I do safe tortilla so that it = I get behind them and They fly with dp so I can own. instead of my face getting raped with an auto correcting dp?
I don’t think you can air grab a backdashing opponent. The latest you can perform your air grab is just above Ryu’s head, and most won’t be hopping that high on their backdash. I’m not entirely sure on this, so I’ll try to see if I can test it in training mode later.
Also, I think good number of characters have little to no airborne frames in their backdashes. So might be very character specific. Again, I’m not entirely sure on this.
Tortilla, forward dash x 3, immediate run back, run back some distance, tortilla forward still works.
whiffed HK guacamole, run back, tortilla works, too.
Brainz’s video on youtube on safe tortilla timing (just search for “safe tortilla” and it will be the first video) to see the right spacing for the run back before you execute the tortilla.
Also, didn’t Okada speak on the matter of El Fuerte’s position as a low tier character, and how he will likely remain there? It looks like Capcom is really not interested in making El Fuerte that much better than he was in vanilla.
Yea you can still airgrab backdashes just like in vanilla, several setups for that, most of them work the same.
You can also airgrab ryu’s DP since it goes airborne faster, but I haven’t found a use for this since the spacing/timing is pretty specific and other setups deal with those better, it’s just something I do to ranked match randoms that jab dp every other wakeup because I think it looks funny.
Yes fuerte is still at the bottom. He is better but so is everyone else and most of the others got buffs that are consistent throughout the match and not completely tied to a new ultra like fuerte. It wouldnt surprise me one bit if he turns out to be the worst character in the game, that title is still up for grabs, but he is certainly still low tier and I can’t think of any character right off of the top of my head that is worse than him.
People that think fuerte is suddenly a mid tier character just because he got a this ultra I think are playing low quality people, no offense, but fuerte really is not good against a solid experienced player that knows exactly how to fight him. Never was and still isn’t. Now if you get a good read on the other person you can beat anyone but that’s not the point, if you have to read your opponent 10x better than he has to read you, that’s the definition of a bad character.
That being said, fuerte just fits with me, I am way more likely to win with him than with someone else, however that doesn’t blind me to the fact that the other characters are almost all significantly better.
Windbreaka: in vanilla the only ones that could not be airgrabbed out of backdash was Ken And Dan since they had no airborne frames.
Not sure if that was changed though.
I would think it saddening if with these slight improvements Fuerte went down in tiers.
Hey, when did we ever care about tiers? As far as I’m concerned, El Fuerte’s a wildcard. We can’t be adapted to a tier list. We’re in our own.
Tiers are only reliable in a hypothetical world where every player is equal skilled. The problem with that is that I’m 10x better than those Rufus players ahahahhahaaah.
No seriously, tiers don’t mean a thing. Wins are everything.
Low Tier No Fear