El Fuerte General Discussion Thread

[Paper]

reason that people dash after is because before, that was the best way to consistently position it without any chance of a timing error. Now it might be better to guac, i dunno yet.

ultra spark seems really really good right now cause the game has been out for a week

That makes no sense.

To consistently time a safe tortilla you need to have a point you start from (i.e. after 3 dashes, or a hk guac etc) and a point you jump from, since you are only changing one of the points in this tortilla equation the other point has to fluctuate, depending on the person the timing for the press of Fierce after hab back dash may be different, there is no specific timing that is more consistent for everyone.

Correct me if there is something wrong with my logic.

[Shadow_Ace_50]

reason that people dash after is because before, that was the best way to consistently position it without any chance of a timing error. Now it might be better to guac, i dunno yet.

ultra spark seems really really good right now cause the game has been out for a week

I agree and disagree at the same time blue…I agree because the game is fresh and that players rarely run into a u2 fuerte so that they do not know the full properties of the move…I disagree on the fact that U2 being good just because the game is new and eventually it will go down the hill…

U2 is amazing and I havent looked back since…it beats early and late jump-ins…has decent recovery time if whiffed…beats out alot of moves…command motion is more simple…(I had problems getting U1 to come out after a focus crumple during tournaments)

[YoungFox]

Alright i decided to test which dps are unthrowable using this method. first i tried to fajita buster the dp(timing is easier than tortilla in this game) then i tried to find a spaceing where the tortilla whould do the same. what i found was that these dps and dp like moves got stuffed by tortilla:

Adon- rising jaguar, tested on lk version(diddnt test ex)
Ibuki-kazigirl, tested on lk and ex version
makoto- all versions of her up punch. you can grab during its long startup on her wake up easy. out side of that if the punch is fully out then it will beat tortila and tostada
dan- ghetto shoryuken, tested on lk version
cammy-cannon spike, tested on lk and hk version
sakura- ghetto shoryuken, works on all but the ex version
rose-soul throw, tested on lk version
Thawk- tomahawk buster, tested on all. diddnt test ex

It seems like the only person whos dp is different from the last game is ryu. still if you time your tortila right when he does a light shoryuken, it will whiff and you will be in range for a close fierce during his recovery.

Also in general is seem the timing for safe tortilla is different form vanilla 4. to grab adon’s dp i started tortila around 3 characters spaces away. roughly the distence you are left after landing a fajita buster to be more precise. i desperetly need sleep (too much ssf4) otherwise i would try to find the exact timeing for the new safe tortilla. it may change per character, i dunno. ne way i hope any of this is useful to you guys.

one quick thing bout ultra 2, i managed to punish a whiffed cr.medium punch from vega so it definatly has its uses even if your opponent knows its exact properties

[Kooper]

I almost knocked Sanford into the loser’s bracket at 8otb last Tuesday night, came down to the very last game/round, his reaction to U2 was pretty good, ultra is so damn good. Ultra can scare people into not doing a lot of things.

Look for me on the stream next Tuesday night guys.

[xsonicc]

reason that people dash after is because before, that was the best way to consistently position it without any chance of a timing error. Now it might be better to guac, i dunno yet.

ultra spark seems really really good right now cause the game has been out for a week

That makes no sense.

To consistently time a safe tortilla you need to have a point you start from (i.e. after 3 dashes, or a hk guac etc) and a point you jump from, since you are only changing one of the points in this tortilla equation the other point has to fluctuate, depending on the person the timing for the press of Fierce after hab back dash may be different, there is no specific timing that is more consistent for everyone.

Correct me if there is something wrong with my logic.

3x forward dash was always good for me, i know what you mean halyconryu with the timing being a little different now, i feel it too, but it still works from what i can tell. i’ve safe tortilla’d a ryu out of his dp a few times. i also liked the 3x dash because you could feint, and do 2x dash, run back, stop and jump for a crossup fierce or airthrow a back dash. hk guac works too iirc, as well as a flat out forward jump, then run back. i remember there were a few other safe tortilla setups, but they escape me right now. safe tortilla was one of the few reasons i liked fuerte _

[Munchi]

Losing tortilla as a constant use weapon just means we have to mix it up more. Just gotta setup another recipe.

We’ll be fine. We just need more time to figure out what’s what.

Lk guac is still a good meter builder. Qbomb seems to be packing more use and seems slightly safer so right now I’m good.

Now what I want to know is… Where can we use friggin focus attacks. I still haven’t been using them.

Also. I know everyone hates gordita sobat but has anyone thrown it out there?

I actually really like Gordita Sobat in SSFIV , i feel like there may be some potential in it this time around … i have been learning the max range for it so i can stay random , and i have been trying to figure out better pressure tactics with it … example : if you have 2 bars of ex you can focus xx into standing jab block strings , throw ect . if you hit with it then start jab pressure then it counts as a combo ! Im gonna test more with it and see

[sPaB_RoG]

Run at bison and do Gordita Sobat. if he blocks, just ex run and splash. if it whiffs, you could do U1 right after, and most likely U2, havent really tried it though.

[akashwan]

Well Gordita is 1 frame faster in super according to the developers, not sure if this might help make it better, but its worth exploring for sure.

The hitbox for tortilla is definitelty different, not sure if it is smaller, but I highly doubt its bigger than before as it whiffs more. I might be imagining the following, but I think the hitbox has shifted a bit, not sure how to describe it lol

[El_Cor]

I think we let the power that ultra two has let us get cocky.

We still need to nickle and dime. Which is kinda what pisses me off. But when I turtle I stillget my qbombs in. I just wish it combo’d off of more then just clFP.

I think running the clock is my current best strategy. It leads to plenty openings.

I think we also need a full check on our normals. I wish jMO crossed up. The way it looks would be perfect for it.

I don’t feel less effective. I still can’t rsf. I lost tortilla and timing overhead hit fir dropkick seems more annoying. But guac buff and ultra 2 with turtling+run away+ taunt seems to be doing just fine.

I fake Alot. I pointlessly burn meter on ex run to ‘teach’ the opponent that I can run through their bs. I abuse invincibility on tostada to go through fireballs, whiffing on purpose to get them cocky enoughto get reckless with the fireballs to get tostada’d or scared to jump back into my ex guac for me.

I think our answer is obvious. Fient more. We have two built in fakes. Normals and specials we can whiff and I dunno but I love seeing people over react when I run back picadillo jump.

Not only that. We can make more mistakes. Sometimes you gotta do something screwy. Who are we using?

El Forte vandalism character. Yup.

We have to come up with more tricks.

I love this cause it’s mainly my line of thinking with El Fuerte. El Fuerte isn’t the other characters. He doesn’t need links or combos or other normal SF mechanics to win. He’s a new character who does a lot of new things that the previous SF games did not have. I am going to abuse the specialty out of it. I think that’s why also I got attracted to Hakan and Viper. They’re practically so different that they can pretty much run over the other characters with the right skill level.

[halcyonryu]

Well I have figured out safe tortilla again, the hit box is definitely smaller now though so that’s a nerf no matter how you look at it, and a big one.

U2 is definitely good but I’d rather have had a 3 frame low short or a 4 frame low forward. No use crying over spilt milk though.

Fuerte is still going to be fun at least.

BTW armor cancel U2 is pretty damn broken in some matchups, and it seems like armor cancels are easier to do now than in vanilla.

Too bad our bad matchups still eat us alive though.

It is possible to hit confirm gordita sobat into super, you could do this in vanilla too of course but that’s the purpose of it. Do the sobat and if it hits or they focus, super.

[sPaB_RoG]

Well I have figured out safe tortilla again, the hit box is definitely smaller now though so that’s a nerf no matter how you look at it, and a big one.

U2 is definitely good but I’d rather have had a 3 frame low short or a 4 frame low forward. No use crying over spilt milk though.

Fuerte is still going to be fun at least.

BTW armor cancel U2 is pretty damn broken in some matchups, and it seems like armor cancels are easier to do now than in vanilla.

Too bad our bad matchups still eat us alive though.

It is possible to hit confirm gordita sobat into super, you could do this in vanilla too of course but that’s the purpose of it. Do the sobat and if it hits or they focus, super.

im pretty sure you could jab after gordita hits. in vanilla you could connect

[dfyb]

I just rarely find gordita sobat connects… why would they just be standing there not blocking?

Well I have figured out safe tortilla again

Can you please expand on this? Got any dependable setups?

[Shadow_Ace_50]

id like to see some tournament footage of U2 fuerte

[WarioMan]

Yes I would also like to know the new safe tortilla setup o_o

Haven’t messed with gordita in SSF too much, yet. I tend to hit-confirm Fuerte’s super with q-bomb or if they focus a shower kick…

[windbreaka]

edit: and is there any way to prevent running in the corner from not letting you cancel the run…? pisses me off when i’m running full screen smashing trying to cancel the fucking thing.

This was also getting me killed a lot. So now I mash lk. If you were running back, you do the command back jump. If you were running forward, you do the command back dash. Both options safely keep you pressed against the corner, away from your opponent.

Which El Fuerte’s okizeme options beat an opponent’s wake-up backdash?

A lot of El Fuerte’s okizeme options are escapable with a backdash, and I mean a LOT. If you time things well, then you would usually recover little earlier, right next to them. So you CAN throw or block a reversal attempt, therefore not an ideal counter for the opponent.

But I do want to know if there is a way to make them think twice before backdashing. This way the opponent will be forced to choose a different counter method, like jumping or blocking.

P.S. I’m glad I’m not the only one not being able to grab Ryu out of his shoryukens with tortilla. I’m really displeased about tortilla’s nerf.

[Paper]

This was also getting me killed a lot. So now I mash lk. If you were running back, you do the command back jump. If you were running forward, you do the command back dash. Both options safely keep you pressed against the corner, away from your opponent.

Which El Fuerte’s okizeme options beat an opponent’s wake-up backdash?

A lot of El Fuerte’s okizeme options are escapable with a backdash, and I mean a LOT. If you time things well, then you would usually recover little earlier, right next to them. So you CAN throw or block a reversal attempt, therefore not an ideal counter for the opponent.

But I do want to know if there is a way to make them think twice before backdashing. This way the opponent will be forced to choose a different counter method, like jumping or blocking.

P.S. I’m glad I’m not the only one not being able to grab Ryu out of his shoryukens with tortilla. I’m really displeased about tortilla’s nerf.

c.rh beats back dash.

Safe tortilla still works on everything it worked on in vanilla

[akashwan]

Yes c.rh beats back dash and is possibly one of the safer options in general. Also, run back -> stop -> cross j.FP seems to work as well and might give you a free RSF, which will make them think twice before back dashing.

Also, to make Densou happy we can’t forget about Qbomb now loool It is risky indeed and if they decide to block on wakeup you will either eat a big punish or waste two EX bars to cancel it and be safe. But if the opponent keeps doing backdashes all the time then a Qbomb would catch them and push them closer to the corner as a bonus. For those who like to mix between FA and backdashes on wakeup and rarely block, Qbomb is handy.

[mexiwont]

Weird thing I’ve noticed, if you doo jump-in non-crossup HP against Balrog kinda high it will push him out of cl.HP range when you land. I kept on doing ambiguous crossups against one dude and where it used to lead to an RSF it doesn’t anymore…

[IIPeru]

Well I have figured out safe tortilla again, the hit box is definitely smaller now though so that’s a nerf no matter how you look at it, and a big one.

U2 is definitely good but I’d rather have had a 3 frame low short or a 4 frame low forward. No use crying over spilt milk though.

Fuerte is still going to be fun at least.

BTW armor cancel U2 is pretty damn broken in some matchups, and it seems like armor cancels are easier to do now than in vanilla.

Too bad our bad matchups still eat us alive though.

It is possible to hit confirm gordita sobat into super, you could do this in vanilla too of course but that’s the purpose of it. Do the sobat and if it hits or they focus, super.

I dont know man I’d rather have this new ultra is prob the best in the game right now from what I’ve seen it makes all his match ups better. Its a ridiculously good anti air you can do it as late as you want no more getting jabbed out of ultra or missing on character you hardly play so your not used to how they jump. People cant just walk up and pressure fuerte anymore on wake up they get scared and neutral jump which is another free ultra, and now that armor canceling is actually worth doing I really dont see the bad matchups you speak of fuerte. I think he will actually go even with everyone is this game.

[AOS]

Hakan destroys Fuerte, if he has oil combination hold. No tostada, no Fajita Buster, no Tortilla, No Wall jump, no cross up fierce, and no flying giga buster. I took the risk of using giga buster against a friend using hakan yesterday.

I landed the giga buster as soon as I saw him oil up, he went wtf, so I’m assuming he couldn’t jump out in time.

but for the most part, I still suck with fuerte as I keep trying to run away with backdash, when his slide and bear hug beats it close range.