i think matches between fuerte and viper is gonna get a little worse in AE, because since ex guac is getting nerf’d it gives her a pretty good advantage when she jumps in.
I thought they were only nerfing ex-guac recovery on whiff? Shouldn’t affect its AA abilities.
think spab means that it’s gonna be harder to escape viper’s pressure with ex guac since they nerfed the recovery.
^^yup thats what I meant lol. im saying, she can jump in on us now and probably could react to ex guac with seismo or some shit. gonna suck balls
On the subject of stepping up the GD thread, I would put myself in the category of lurkers looking for little strategies/set ups here and there. I would definitely say I’ve learned a lot reading stuff on here since the Vanilla days and will try to contribute as much as I can. The whole reason I started playing Fuerte was because he was so fun, but I absolutely take him and SF4 very seriously. I put in the time to learn RSF and payed my countless losses before even showing a shred of success, I’m sure you all can relate.
SCR was actually the first tournament I went to, and it really put my defense (or lack thereof) into perspective. I got beat by a pretty decent Ryu, then I got completely blown up by LainySky’s Viper. I probably shouldn’t even disclose this next info, but after he handily beat me the first match some dude sitting next to us was like “Whoa hey you’re that C.Viper I’ve seen on the wed. night fights stream blah blah. Whoops are you in a match right now?”. Lainy said “Well, I wouldn’t call it a match”. >___>
Needless to say, it made me very hungry. I’ve been trying to seek more local competition (I live in Los Angeles, I know it’s a hotspot), most of my offline competition comes from one guy. No disrespect to my friend, but I feel I have ‘outgrown him’ as a sparring partner, I can mix him up all day and he doesn’t teach me how to block. Enough rambling about myself, just saying I wanna get better.
Kind of off topic, but lately I’ve been trying to take note of each and every safe jump/crossup opportunity after Fuerte’s knockdowns, and I was wondering if you guys have an archive of safe jump setups somewhere. Sorry if these are old news, but I wanna run by the setups I work with (correct me if I’m wrong on any of these).
Back throw > very small forward run, stop, jump in crossup
Fajita > walk forward one step, ambiguous crossup
Tortilla > walk forward one step, RH, jump in
Tortilla > forward dash x2, run back, stop, crossup
Tortilla > f+MK, run back, stop, ambiguous crossup
Tortilla > MK guac, ambiguous crossup (take one step for crossup, jump immediately for non)
That last one was my favorite, but since it’s not gonna work in AE, I’ve been trying not to use it as much…
lk guac might work in AE
yeah you got it. thats all the jump in setups I know. but I think theres more, spore probably knows.
you can also get an ambiguous jump in setup after a non techable splash. just walk a little forward and wait a moment before you jump.
also if you want to like make your setups a little less predictable. after like tortilla, dash once, then hold forward and press light kick like twice, and in between just nudge yourself a little forward. works alot of the time.
and yeah man, its good you had a deuchbag say something to you, shows you got a lot to prove now. Now just try to add new shit to your game. like what he did to you, was it lack of blocking, you guessed too much, you didnt attack enough, stuff like that.
like the best tip I can give most fuerte videos from what I watch is not to be so direct with your intention of attacking, it should be more tactical. put them in little categories based on body language, learn what initiates when they wanna play offense, learn where they want to be. try to get in there head, learn how quickly they adapt to you. say you splash, then next time they try to focus. just learn that there gonna adapt to the last thing that you did, then you find a counter for that. Just keep making them think. and if you feel that you cant read them, do something you shouldnt think of. also, be observant of little things. on how there mobile. do things like count how many seconds it takes them to throw out a special, is it in retarded intervals and things like that.
most importantly, trust yourself in whatever you do. you can take risks that arent too risky, but high risk things should be gimmicky, not straight forward. just come up with your own little theories on how people think, or how you can manipulate them. see the game in a different way. once you find out someones playstyle, then you can work something around them.
Don’t forget forward/neutral throw > walk forward slightly, jump HP (ambiguous). If you don’t walk forward it’s a safe jump-in against most characters.
Pretty much why I lost so hard to Viper was my lack of blocking. I’ve never fought one of that caliber and got eaten alive by flame kicks on wake up. Not saying it would have changed the outcome, but playing on an unfamiliar stick didn’t help either.
That’s some good advice right there, Spab. Definitely one of my biggest issues (besides blocking) is being impatient. I’ve gotten better at it, but when somebody shuts down one of my options, I try the next one, then the next one, etc. Often times it leads me to be way too predictable in my attempt to get in. Hate to say it, but I get blown up by grab mixups, too, especially dive kick grab mixups…
yeah man im the same way against dive kick characters. but you gotta think outside the box. just backdash jab xx run. it works good against cammy. but in that viper matchup, dont try to tech, just react to the blocking. its actually not that bad.
This is kind of trivial, but i just hit 10k B+ on xbl! 
Gotta love guys lacking in sportsmanship… shit that’s pissing ME off. On that note, yes use it as fuel to step it up and improve, but don’t carry it with you the next time you play him as it can distract you or make you lose.
Usually I give people advice if I stomped them, some guys get mad to the point they wanna quit, but a few words of encouragement and sometimes a return session seems to cheer’em up.
But I notice lots of other players don’t do that. It’s disappointing really. Especially how when I was in Sasebo, even with a language barrier some players were nice enough to point things out for me when I was practically 100% free to everyone there in KOF2k2 or SVC Chaos, Rumble Fish, and GGXX etc. I think sans a Balrog/Rose player (he was pretty good, though now I think I can do something besides embarrass myself against him), an El Fuerte player I haven’t seen since Vanilla (who handed me my ass), and the Viper player who I ticked off with timeout wins (Who also plays Fuerte and can RSF) are the few I was able to stay friendly with.
I dunno, maybe it’s just me but I like striking up a conversation with players. I think lightening the mood a bit, ya know, reminding peeps its a game keeps winning fun and makes losing not so bad.
I mean, Internet tough guys aside, does anyone else really have that problem at the arcades?
Viper’s burning kick, I stopped being scared of it after I started FA absorb xx back dash (buffer run) xx immediate Picadillo jump. if they go for crossup burn kick, on your wake up, I’ve gotten away from it that way as well. But I’m not sure if this was a good get away on crossup due to Picadillo being fast or because of the Viper’s poor reaction. I’m not scared about Seismo either. I’ve baited EX so many times… I think I’m gonna do more testing with that.
I’m a mixed bag with Viper. If I notice the person is very aggressive with Viper then I make it a point to abandon defense and just attack the bitch. But if the person is content to tricks and fakes, just go full screen and kill the clock. none of her moves reach and if she wants to super jump burn kick, just run under, slide and go to the other slide or Focus crumple her ass.
I’m not a fan of her Thunder Knuckle, three-way fient-able armor breaker ugh… Not really sure how to deal with it.
**WARNING, THEORY FIGHTER AHEAD, GRAIN OF SALT PLEASE: **
If I’m not mistaken, they’re making dive kicks have a limit to where they can do them now, NOT SURE WHICH CHARACTERS, but we’ll see. I THINK I’ve had Q-Bomb beat them since they don’t hit over head like normal jumping attacks. BUT while I think this is nice for Q-bomb. I don’t really use Q-Bomb unless I’m turtling. Now. On to my main point. How about Habenero Back Dash xx sudden stop xx Queso Slap (far MP) or Arroz con Frijoles(Target Combo) to punish dive kickers? These two have range. and Far MP and the first hit of TC can cancel to run. I mean hey, it’s just nickle and dime-ing, but if Dive Kicks aren’t going to be as abuseable, That means it can be abused LESS against us and punished easier.
/Theory Fighter
I’m grabbing them setups and putting them on the Fundamentals thread if you guys don’t mind.
Random Question, does ANYTHING stuff Rufus Galactic tornado? I friggin’ hate that move, and I really don’t fight any Rufus’
Random question two: Anyone know how many frames more of recovery for Guacs?
Edit: Good shit boba.
ill quickly tell you how i play the “divekick-characters”: dont even let them get close.
fuertes pokes are much better than rufus pokes. on the other side, cammy can blow you up with ex-dive, no problem with the regular one here.
rufus is free on his wakeup if he has no meter, cammy is a bit more difficult to deal with but still doable. do what fuerte can do the best: bait just everything, test their reactions. you can work from there.
dont be afraid of the shenanigans, be patient, block. sometimes eating a throw is better than eating a full combo that takes 30% (looking at you, cammy bi-ooootch :D)
for myself: i hate the dictator matchup 
edit on galactic tornado: farst.mp CAN beat it, farst.hk trades a lot. jumping attacks can beat it too. tortilla it on reaction, no problem.
im not sure but i think q-bomb beats it clean. but on the other side, i dont know any rufus that throws it out randomly mid/fullscreen. i hate that q-bomb has that much startup…
I think capcom is scared of qbomb. No joke.
Thanks for dive kick info
Separate note:
Been having some troubles against a couple of Ryus online who follow a similar pattern:
Jumping HK on my wakeup
I block
They step forward and throw
What should I be doing here? I’ve tried teching but especially depending on the connection strength my results are mixed. Is there any other move you guys typically do to get away from the throw?
Stop down backing tech window is smaller I believe. Tech earlier, though this lag thing… Ugh. Have you tried back dashing if it’s that predictable?
Does Picadillo have invincibility or something? Also since Picadillo is any kick and run is any punch. Shouldn’t that be a good option for us when faced with an uncomfortable jumpin?
far s.hk is one of fuerte’s best tools against dive kicks, and burning kicks as well, like i was telling Kooper at NEC.
make sure you’re just outside the far s.hk range, if rufus moves forward and dive kicks, or viper does a burning kick, you’ll hit em out of it and can juggle with lk guac.
rule of thumb against viper and rufus and other offensive characters: always watch yours and their ex bars. rush em down when they have no ex bars, since without meter, they are very susceptible to wake up pressure. And know your safe setups once rufus and vipers have meter, eg
after tortilla, dash forward three times run back stop, (wait for ex sesimio flash), tortilla again.
meaty slide and f.mk stuffs out ex seismo, hp thunder knuckle and goes under ex burning kicks if timed right.
f.mk causes ex messiah to whiff. meaty slide goes under non-ex snake strike.
yeah hope this helps.
Sweet
i wanna sorta discuss the topic of safe options vs Rufus (Viper too!) … correct me if im wrong but there seems to be a way to safe jump or shower on his wake up like you said spore with setups for other options OS too maybe? eg.
*After tortilla whiff dropkick , hit s.jab (holding forward to inch up) , shower makes messiah whiff on reversal and delayed (i know theres better set ups , right ? ) … i also was doing tortilla towards his body after the 1st one then shower to make it whiff but that set up felt sketchy imo cause he can throw to reset his offense if we do it too close … unless that set up makes it meaty ? im not sure?
*After fajita the RS or walk forward safe jump crossup makes them whiff too and from there you can OS calamari if the crossup doesnt hit …
am i on the right path?
Haha, Phil really intimidates me because I’ve played him a lot in the past. If anything he already has a very good grasp on my bad habits and used that to his advantage. Reflecting back on it I know I made a really lot of mistakes and wasn’t thinking right, probably because it was Phil. I do like that advice though, ‘believe in yourself’ I’ll have to keep at it and now consider myself garbage lol. I also have to keep not messing up RSF and play offline more haha.
Yeah, I was just sad you didn’t make it further, your Fuerte is really good and deserves more recognition, so I’m sad you didn’t get the opportunity. I’ll probably drop in on some NYC tournaments and stuff in the future looking for you haha.
btw I loved our sadness session on Sunday. Nothing but us shaking in fear of arcade edition, lol