Actually his bnb isn’t even safe on block or hit depending on who you are fighting against, and it pretty much resets the match outside of the corner.
What hella damage? He can’t even conveniently combo into super.
Smart use of parries can apply to anyone. And what can Yamazaki do off a midrange parry? Roundhouse? 1200 damage, yeah thats hoss. Sweep? Have fun against safe falls.
And I’ll say it again he has ZERO mobility. P-Yamazaki may very well be the least mobile character in the game. Hell, at least Chang can throw the gimp at you, and Zangief has a longer jump arc. Yamazaki has a mediocre walking speed, a short dash and a jump arc like Luc Longely.
You act like you have to do a hella damaging combo after every parry…
Midrange you roundhouse them, do it twice and you’ve fucked with most people enough to make them second guess a lot of their attacks. Ducking forward, stomp, slap hits from pretty far away=hella damage and stun. Comboing into his supers is not what to look for. Anti-air or parry super are good options. I’d use him as a battery for Sagat and Cammy, his annoyingly simple combos do a lot of damage, no need to even use his super. P-groove is about the mind games more than anything, but you insist on arguing about the fundamentals.
You’re convinced that he sucks, though, and I don’t use him enough to keep defending him.
I really hate P-yama, i actually think he is pretty bad too.You have to fight at far range and he is so slow you can’t play good footsies, jmk is one of his saviors though vs good players it will get DP’d.Parry don’t help him at all, or as much as other characters would benifit.I would play P-rugal over him.
I think every P-team should have Cammy,Sakura,Vega.You’ve all said it your selves, P-grtooove is about ground game so you need the best footsies characters.Sagat is arguable, mai is good too
I played Pigadoken’s P-Yama as well; it’s scary if he can get his parry setup game going. Sometimes he doesn’t even need to move to do damage; people just walk right into his range. Even if they have moves that outprioritize Yama’s moves, parry makes up for that shortcoming since he can bait them out. And IIRC he usually punishes parried far reaching normals with his far s.fp, which comes out in 7 frames, has nice range and can be cancelled into his Whip move for a 2-hit combo. Even if his s.fp gets blocked, the Whip usually pushes the other guy out of range to “reset” the match (though I’m not sure if he can be punished with a Level 3 super or something afterwards). I’m thinking runaway with people like Rolento, Mai, or Vega is his weakness due to his mobility (aside from usual anti-P people like A-Sak).
On a side note, I didn’t know that there was a P-Ken user at SBO2… For those who saw it, how did he play him? Since the only P-Ken I’ve ever seen was pretty much Pigadoken’s…
I think P Ken is good. Better than Yama if you ask me. Has a good punish combo from mid-range off a parry ( cr mk xx funky kick) and makes some matches a little more tolerable and not as RC dependent. I like him better as a user than a battery.
Yama is good in any mode. I can’t believe ppl are hating on him. He’s got a great ground game. Most characters can’t do anything to stop the simple shit like s. rh and jumpin forward. He’s got a great anti-air in the c. fierce which beats pretty much anything under the sun that his s. strong doesn’t. He doesn’t NEED to move. He’s a zoner/turtler. Why the fuck does he need mobility? Not all characters are made the same. Duh.
If Cammy has meter and you whiff a fierce in anticipation of a spiral arrow = half-life. If Cammy has meter and you tiger-shot in anticipation of a spiral arrow, Cammy jumps or low jumps = half-life(more if its a regular jump), the change machine takes your dollar and your girlfriend tells you she needs some time off all in the same day. Now granted these are all variables but if you notice risk vs. reward is heavily in Cammy’ favor. Also you have to worry about an overzealous Cammy who likes to jump-in and parry your tiger uppercuts. An experienced Cammy will seldom try this but it’s one more thing Sagat has to think about; now he has to mix-up his anti-airs. And if players had the ability to dp every cannon spiral on reaction, then I don’t think we’d ever see people jump in CvS2. Because I can tell you it’s easier to dp a jump-in everytime than a well spaced spiral arrow.
Also, Cammy has absolutely no need to parry jump-ins. She has cr.fierce,st.cl.rh(for crossups), cannon spike and targeto bureeh super. In fact you really should not parry jump-ins with anyone in p-groove, IMO, with maybe a few exceptions.
Which is why I think P-Yama is so shitty, because without super, which will be often, you are basically forced to parry your way out of shitty situations, and 9 out of 10 Yamazaki’ offensive options don’t even justify it. See in C and N he has these nifty things called alpha counters, rolls and supers to keep people from capitalizing on his so-so anti-air game, get from from a to b, and to keep people away from him. Because really inside of his rh range he doesn’t have a whole lot else.
As far as P-Ken, P-Yama, you mean to tell me that parry into sweep is better than parry into super?
Parry into sweep with Yama … I can sort of understand where you’re going with that. Its not that good. Now if he had RC then I would go for the knockdown. Then you can mix up after meaty cr forwards, RC command grabs and the like. If you’re just going to zone like you imply you will, then you only reset the match. Ken getting the knockdown is much better since he can land damaging combos that stun (as well as take off a chunk of guard meter) very well.
A lot of people think Ken is all about level 2 cancels and RC’s. Many will disagree, but I think he’s solid even without them. He has good pokes, you just have to know when to use them.
You act like P-Cammy always comes with free meter. you dont tiger shot in anticipation of a spiral arrow, you zone her out with it.
theres a range where cammy can pretty much do nothing except parry her way in. i think the range is about Sagat’s standing lk distance. if she tries to rh, she’ll get hit by his lks, if she tries to walk back and forth (jiggling the stick), standing hp, or cannon drill, she’ll get hit by tiger shots, and if she jumps, she gets tiger uppercutted every time, her jump ins are easy as fuck to dp due to the lack of a downward angle.
this tactic alone made rolling groove cammy’s ineffective vs Sagat.
okay, i still dont see how the risk/reward is in cammy’s favor. cammy has too much shit to worry about. since sagat, gets level 2’s every 5 seconds, which does more than Cammy’s level 3 most of the time and has more uses, that alone puts the risk/reward in sagat’s favor.
cammy cant jump in, sagat controls the ground and her standing rh has tons of lag at the end.
then theres the fact that sagat does more, takes less, and usually in a groove where he gets damage bonus when hes charged up.
Why is no one talking about P-Geese? Next to Cammy/Rolento/Kyo, P-geese is the best p-groove character IMO. In the second postion (which is where i would place him) option select jab’s for parries into c.RH (or level 3). Also using s.RH correctly is damn good parry set-up.
Ken has way more going for him than RC’s and level 2 cancels. RC and level 2 cancels aren’t what make him good they are what make him real good. Even without those things though, he’s damn solid. I feel like people have to play with Ken for a while to truly see this.
Yamazaki’ sweep is better than Ken’, true, but Ken has way more options after his than Yamazaki does, simply because his is bufferable.
Also I feel Rc’ing kind of fucked over Yamazaki slightly. It made his standing roundhouse(the best thing going for him) less dominating.
And I’m saying while zoning her out with tiger shots she happens to jump you are losing a lot of life. Another thing, yes Cammy doesn’t get free meter, but have you seen how fast her cr.strong is? That thing is like a jab that builds meter.
Don’t look at Cammy so linearly. She has more than hp, roundhouse and spiral arrow. She has st.strong(which can be buffered into spiral arrow), st.foward, cr.strong and cr.foward. She also has a really good dash that hops over low attacks and can setup some pretty gay mixups. Also Cammy makes arguably the best use of option select parries, so mashing on lk, like many Sagats like to do can be dangerous too.
So Cammy getting in is not that big of a problem. That bitch gets in like ladies night at The Touchdown cafe.
Now one thing I will agree with is that Sagat does do a lot more damage, and Cammy stuns easily so that’s one thing one eye has over her but IMO that is the only thing he has over her.
Kyo is the hardest hitting, but the hardest to use. He has a gang of counter hit set ups, throw set ups, and baits for parries, and crazy super damage.
About 2 out of 3 parry’s you get with Kyo will lead into either a very hard hitting combo, or a knockdown (leading to mixups). He has the hardest hitting non super combos in the game. Therefore one parry could lead into 4000 damage without a super.
Kyo’s mixups are just so powerfull, But you have to practice him so much to be really good.
-Kyo has tons of ways to land his super. Basically, Kyo’s low jump makes his mixups even more deceptive. Add a parry which you don’t really need, just as a bonus. **His mixups after a knockdown, or off of his shorts are really powerfull. **
After parries, Sagat can land some HUGE damage. Because of long hard hitting pokes like: s.hp, c.hp and c.mk, Sagat can land his super off of about 90% of ground parries.
He deals good damage off of normals per opening and he has almost every situation covered - anti airs, footsies, combos, and long projectile games. A few parries and you can take fools out.
There doesn’t seem to be any overwhelmingly bad match ups for P Sagat if you yourself are skilled and have a plan.
Sagat does better over all against more characters. Partly because of his ability to easily parry into super, and the fact that he has a DP.
P groove Sagat is very immobile. Every other sagat gets in by running or rolling. P has neither so when you look at it like that you’ll see why people think p sagat is immobile. He has none of the options to get in fast.
Add to that fact he has some really annoying match ups (especially in P), and he doesen’t have the super every 30 seconds. This all makes using P groove Sagat a lot harder then P Cammy.
**He is very mobile, has high priority. ** After any ground parry, he can almost always hit someone with: c.hp, c.hk, slide.
Blanka benefits heavily from low jump. It gives him more mix up games to play around with. Not to mention the mean lj+hk.
Blanka is just so strong in other areas. The reason why Blanka is good in P groove is mainly because he is a solid character.
Use mixups into super, not parry into super.
For people who like to cheap CC you, Blanka has quite a few CC escape options too that are really easy to do (kkk hop)
With the short jump he has some really good setups into his super, but the thing about blanka is that he really doesen’t need to use his super to win. Thats one of the attributes of a good P character.
With parries blankas ground control becomes even more annoying than it already is with somethin as simple as parry > fierce. Just doing parry into low hk will get you free set ups. Add those low jumps and constant threat of a level 3, empty low jump combo/throw…they all add up to make P Blanka one scary character
P groove Blanka doesn’t seem to benefit from parry as well as many other characters.
P groove Vega is pretty tough to get by he controls so much space with his normals. Add this and parry together, you’ve got a character who can zone you out the whole match.
Vega doesn’t do to much damage per opening. However he still controls the ground.
Much like Blanka, if Sakura activates, you can kkk hop with Vega and be able to punish her as she comes down from the shoryuken (or avoid the hk’s in the beginning).
In P groove, Vega gains the ability of low jump. Vega’s low jump sets up so many mixups to take advantage of the match.
Vega’s game mainly consists of poking and zoning your opponent. However add on parry and low jump, Vega now has the ability of rushing as well as controlling the ground.