On the lag issue, I didnt notice enough to significantly mess with gameplay. That being said, I did miss a few things that could have (or did) cost me a round or two (Christie: post B! dash d+2,3 RLX 3 a few times… RLX 2,4~b B!, ~f, RLX 2,4~b, HSP 1 relaunch [missed every single time it should have hit] Bryan: post B! u/f+3, d/b+2 relaunch [25% success] and post 3+4 d/b+2 relaunch [50% success]). This could have been my fault or the setup’s fault, but either way it wasnt enough to change the outcome of a match this time. Thing about lag is, not only do some characters struggle with it, but people react to it differently as well.
Thank you for responding. Good stuff in Tekken! Dam that christie, capoeria is to good.
how many entrants were in T6?
KOF XII is the only current generation fighting game that supports 1080p. All other games are native 720p.
dang i wish i coulda made it…
Yo dunny (Josh) was the first to actually get this accross to me so I’ve set my settings back on the xbox to 720p, I’ll see you guys next time though
It was a ballin’ tourney.
I know im late to the party but let me just say that I had a blast at this past Gamefrog. Thanks to the venue and to Ed for stepping things up and making sure things ran smoothly.
It was good to see a few old faces return to the scene in glorious form (Charles) and it was great to see the guys who are always in attendance keeping the scene strong.
Thanks for the tips on my play guys, I had something to prove, and im only going to keep getting stronger thanks to all of you. I will do my best to make sure things are always hype when im on the sticks lol.
Many congratulations to all the people who placed and good games to all in attendane. I look forward to seeing you all either at the next Gamefrog or at the next Lucky’s tournament.
Now on to a more serious matter, and that’s the television issue.
While there was a minimal amount of lag on the screens (as there are on ANY HD) none of it was so bad that it negatively effected my performance. I was able to land all my difficult juggles with Lee and with Dragunov. uf+4 df+3,2 delayed 2 b+2(x4) for wall carry 4,3,3 B! landed every time. I contribute that to the fact that I made sure the screen I played on was the optimal settings for the game. What im about to say may come off as harsh but its just truth.
“if youre playing Tekken 6 in standard definition or with incorrect settings youre a fucking idiot”
That statement also applies to all the current gen fighters (SFIV, KoFXII, BB). The first thing people need to do is know the native resolution for the screen you are playing on. The Sony screens at Gamefrog are native 720. So when people hook their system up to it the first thing they need to do is make sure the system settings match that. Also on the back of your game case it tells you the MAX supported HD output for the current game you are playing. Tekken 6 and Street Fighter IV both max out at 720. So they can run on those screens virtually lag free with the proper settings. Blazblue maxes out at 1080i. And as I noted to Ed and I see he already posted, KoF XII is the only game that runs at a full 1080p HD. I see the complaint thrown around way too much. I also personally hear people complain about BOTH Lucky’s and Gamefrog not addressing the lag issues. Now while it is their duty to make sure things are running smooth, it is OUR duty as providers of equipment to help them out when it comes to something so trivial. If you provide a screen or a system make sure its optimized for play. If you bring an XBOX 360 (which naturally runs HD in 1080), change the settings to match the screen you are hooking it up to. If you provide a PS3, do the same. Its as simple as going into display settings and hitting a few buttons.
Now as far as playing 3S, GG, MB, or any other PS2 era fighter on anyting other than a CRT. I have to say it absolutely SHOULDNT be done. Have CRTs ready and available for those games.
Thats just MY two cents. You dont have to take MY word for it though.
O.
I didn’t notice any lag on the TVs. I felt like all my dropped combos were my fault, I gotta say I probably wasn’t in the best place to play that day. No excuses, just sayin, wasn’t my best. I’ll bring my RB2 guitar to the next lock-in and we can run auto-calibration on all the TVs to get some slightly more objective data in there. Won’t be as good as a laptop test but it’ll be more informative than any he-said she-said business.
Had a good time, will definitely be out there for the next one, hopefully I won’t choke again!
RB2 test is not going 2 give you a accurate reading…not even close. If you really want 2 test the TV you need 2 get a camera that shoots @ 60 frames per sec & shoot Dictator or any character doin a normal attack check the frame data and youll get your results. Here is a perfect example http://www.upstatefighting.com/glory/hdlag_test.wmv
Im sorry Orochi but when you say that a TV and game native res is 720p, thats doesnt make gameplay lag free on any dispaly. You can play Sf4 or T6 via monitor or HDTV but if that display has lag, gamemode, hdmi, hdfury, vga cables,even turning off options that enduce postprocessing, IT WILL STILL LAG. If you play on a sdtv yea you may not get a great looking picture but its lagless. There’s ppl that play on hdtv that lags and they have no idea that it does cuz its normal play condition for them. I know cuz i use to play on a HDTV that lag and until i went to luckys was like huh ok my shit is way off. The best way to solve this issue is to test the hdtv (60fps camera) or get a sponsor to buy some panels that are lag free. Until then ppl will notice lag and ppl will claim there aight no lag. Until the masses have been educated we will have a back and forth discussion about lag for a long minute.
That would be good idea to do at Luckys and Gamefrog so we know what we are working with. But to be honest if you are not playing on 720p native tv with componet cables and the ps3 is set to 720p output your going to have prombles. Cutting off the sides of the screen are bad for games that were programmed for widescreen, T6 wall carry gets fuck up bad from what I have heard.
CRT=48OI/ HD=720P OR 1080P
Have correct cables and set your PS3 to output at the correct resolution, for HD game mode should be on. End.
Sounds like a personal preception issue to me. You said you did not know you had lag on your tv till you went to luckys? Well logic would prove that if eveybody was playing on crt still then there would be no disscution. The fact that most people own HD tvs brings us to a crossroad, who is truly the standard of play? CRTS were the standard and the games were programmed for that time. Ever ask youself why all the left jabs in Tekken are now 10 frames? Do the math on relationship to the lowest lag you can get on and HD tv. What was steve fox left jab start up?
yes ed you have the right idea about the native resolution and the issue playing on a sdtv vs hdtv. Thats important too, but that only solves 1/2 of the problem. If you or anyone gets there hands on a 60fps we can definitely hook up the sony, crt, & my asus you will get a clear understanding.
Standard def is the only way to assure that lag is not an issue. Standard def TVs lag at 2-4ms at the absolute highest; The BEST HD setups (monitors like Asus and the like) lag at 6-8ms; generally most HDTVs lag at around 20-30ms with game mode on, without it it’s closer to 30-50ms (1 frame is 17ms, just to clarify). Like Hector said, if you’re used to it because of your setup at home, then you won’t notice. If you play characters like Akuma where frames are a huge issue (the window to get the full 3 hits of fierce DP as anti-air is incredibly small vs. a lot of characters, and that damage difference can be huge when your talking about a low life character). This isn’t taking into account commercial displays and specialized monitors, which I’ll get to in a minute.
There is no lag at Lucky’s from any of the equipment there. The only lag that could be an issue is the setups provided by others. That’s why they use nothing but CRTs and composite inputs; only then is it all about the players and the game, with no excuses. When lag is introduced, it fucks up gameplay whether you notice it or not.
As far as the notion that these games are programmed with lag in mind, that’s horribly wrong. The reason being that the commercial displays I mentioned earlier are the same displays in Viewlix cabinets that are used for arcade setups for SF4, BB, T6BR, and all other current gen games. These monitors broadcast in all available HD signals, and don’t lag any higher than 4ms, same as a CRT. There’s only one problem with these monitors; they’re expensive as fucking hell (which is why the 4 way SF4 kits cost so damn much).
The tournament standard is easily found at major tournaments, where the worst lag can be found on computer monitors (EVO used the Asus 23’ monitors exclusively). All other majors (NEC, FR, etc.) run their tournaments exclusively on CRTs and have stated that they will continue to do so until TV manufacturers get off their lazy asses and make a HD television that does not lag with gamers in mind.
My personal opinion: you’re playing a reactive game, so why not play with the optimal settings? It may not look as pretty but I’m not playing fighting games for the aesthetics, and most of the time the good HD displays are small anyway lol. The fact of the matter is that CRTs are lagless and every HDTV will lag. Anyone who consistently plays on a CRT TV would have noticed it. The only way to increase responsiveness past a CRT TV is probably a CRT monitor with whatever game running at 60fps (I’ve briefly played SFIV like this). It’s my suspicion that the people who’ve reported “no lag” either consistently play on a HD setup with some degree of delay or play online a lot. These games are much more responsive than a lot of you new guys may realize because you haven’t played on a lagless setup (so it’s not really a “problem” for you). 
The only time I’ve heard of an aspect ratio difference affecting gameplay was a Ryu combo in the JP TVC. Even so, just as you could say it’s a persons responsibility to adjust to manageable delay, you could also say it’s their responsibility to adjust to aspect ratio differences as well.
The TVs at Gamefrog did have some input delay (which I first noticed at the select screen) but it wasn’t to the point where I was unable to compensate for the differences (why I didn’t really say much). Enforcing a standard is tough because of preferences, hardware, brands, resources, etc. Same reason a lot of people have gotten dual mods - the number of tournaments held on 360 even though PS3 is considered standard. I would say the TVs the PS3s were on at Gamefrog are manageable (and props because they were loads better than last time). It’s probably just a good suggestion that if you’re not playing on the same exact TV as you are at home, or if the system is not using the exact same inputs (or a dif console altogether), playing casuals before the tournament is a lot more important.
CRT should remain the standard imo (but I do realize that a lot of new people in the scene are probably not playing the new shit on one). I prefer CRT and always will until they make something that both looks good and is as responsive.
What is going to happen is all crts are going to become impossible to get your hands on in the next 3 to 4 years and everybody will have HD monitors and then lag will magicaly go away. The funny part will be when some says “remember when they use to play on CRTs, yeah those things had horrible lag” LOL!
I really hope I didnt offend anybody with my statement. I read my post after I typed it and said “damn I sound like an asshole”, trust me its purely unintentional.
Im not putting one venue up over the other, I NEVER have, im just simply stating that I have heard complaints about the setups at both venues. Either there is lag or the display is too dark or something else.
I also didnt say that there would be absolutely ZERO lag bc we all know ANY HD screen has a little lag but its nowhere near as bad as some of the gripes ive heard. Especially when those complaints can be avoided. What I meant about playing the games in SD is the fact that all these new games were made with HD in mind, and as ive tested on my CRT and my HD it completely changes the play area in some games. Was I the only one that noticed the difference in the 3 Tekken 6 setups at Gamefrog. There were 3 setups side by side, lets call them A, B, and C. Setup A was MY setup that I made sure was set to the native 720 of the screen and to display in the 720 of the game. Setup B belonged to Mister K who didnt have component cables with him so his game was displayed used composite in 480 on the 720 screen. I dont know who provided setup C but I do know it was also set up to optimize the 720 display (bc Ed asks me to test these things). I did everything I could to keep people from having to play on setup B bc there were more complaints about dropped combos on it. Correct me if IM WRONG but I say that had everything to do with the fact that the actual play area was stretched and the characters sizes were altered due to the game being displayed in 480.
I guess its like it has been said by many others, it all boils down to what people are USED to playing on and as Roski stated that also emphasizes the importance of people playing casuals beforehand.
O.
Don’t worry, I’m not going to be upset if someone asks me to increase the brightness…(aka I fixed it last time and I know what you’re talking about) 
We should all play on those black and white TVs with the old school lunchbox handles.
Set A and Set C were exactly the same which brings it back to output situation. The next tournament is going to be straight,
Main rule: If you are bringing a PS3 OR X-box 360 set it to 720p and bring component cable only. Gamefrog tvs are 720p. If you do not have these things I can not accept your system for donation. Period.
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Ed: Dont forget to put this tournament on tonamento please.
O.