*Edit, I just realized you wrote crouch forward and not F. Forward. So ignore or take the exposition on kidney blow however you want, since I don’t feel like erasing it. Crouch forward is not a huge buff, but the extra active frames allow for it to be used a little better as a meaty. And I personally feel those extra active frames at work in footsies and when used as an anti air for far jump ins.
Kidney blow being faster essentially allows for Dudley’s blockstring pressure to work much more smoothly. It still has its flaws, and can still lose to some low pokes. But it now tends to trade or beat a lot of low pokes that it used to lose to up close thanks to that faster activation. Throwing a few out in a row feels a lot like Cody’s gut punch pressure now, so counter hit set ups are more feasible and more common with it.
A few things about F.MP. One, is that the hitbox extends lower now. So it can beat a lot of low pokes that previously Dudley had problems with.
It being faster makes it a better poke in general so that you don have to rely on FP so much. The speed also allows for more options in block string pressure. I am fairly certain that f.MK -> f. MP is a frame trap. I was landing counter hit f. MP consistently after my opponents would block a kidney blow and tried to jab or short their way out. You can combo F. MP into a cr.LP -> RH pretty easily on counter hit.
In tandem, both those moves change a lot about Dudley’s pressure game for the better.
All I am saying is that minor changes, in a game like this, often make a big difference in practice. Just look at how people reacted to the dev blogs for Super. Based on those notes, people thought Guile would still suck. I used to main Sim in Vanilla, and they changed very little about him for Super, and yet those little changes buffed him up in a major way. Especially when put into perspective of how other character’s changes affected the match ups. Sim was one of the only characters that didn’t lose damage for Super, and that was a big deal. Dudley looks to be in a similar situation.
There has to be some good buffs elsewhere like LK duck Straight hitting more consistent after EX MGB or some of the characters who fell fast falling slower.
I can’t see them only giving Dudley jHK air to air KD, buffed f. MP, and taking away some combo ability.
Looks like this one of those “Deal With It” things >:/
AE is not here yet, not sure when it will be but I’m going to try and not let it bother me. I still think the “AE” console is getting will be ver2. Capcom likes to tweak stuff every 6 months or so.
You sound like you are just grasping at straws man.
They gave him EX Ducking, and a faster kidney blow. Why do you seem to think that all he got was the air to air and F. MP? Also, I would not jump the gun on comboing into Jet upper. Comboing into that move can whiff easy if not spaced right in the console version already. So just because you see a video where something whiffs doesn’t mean that it was changed. It might have been input incorrectly or from the incorrect range. Maybe there are some new character specific situations.
People were scared about Ultra 1 not punishing Honda headbutts since they saw video of someone fucking up the punish, but that still works like normal. So I say wait for someone who has tested it to confirm or deny that possible change instead of whining about it. It might just be a player error that has you so concerned.
LK Duck straight is the same. I don’t get where you come from with these imaginary trade offs. Just wishful thinking or do you actually think that the devs followed a similarly broken train of logic? The trade off is all the shit in the dev blog plus f.MK (to our knowledge so far) as well as other characters getting worse. That is the trade off, and it is actually quite well done imo.
And I would not hold out for any balance changes in the DLC. Some extra characters beyond the twins sounds likely, but I am pretty sure that AE Dudley will be exactly the same as DLC Dudley.
Seriously, your posts sound like the sky is falling or something. Anyway, I’m done arguing about this. You can go on speculating that Dudley is now somehow gimped and I will go on actually playing the game, and enjoy the fact that he is a much more solid experience now.
I have yet to see EX Ducking do anything more than be a combo ender.
And the JU whiffing isn’t comparable to the vid of U1 not punishing EX HB. We only had one match of u1 not working, we have like 5 or so instances of the JU whiffing in combos from various distances.
I’m sure what you’re getting at with the trade off stuff.
I apologize that I’m not giddy that moves that I used are showing up in videos not working like they once did or actually told to us got worse. I’m hoping something that I used often works better or something.
The trade off stuff is me responding to you constantly saying that his buffs are not a reasonable trade off for losing the stand roundhouse hitstun and all things that that hitstun involved. Then you seem to always bring up some random hopeful, and nonexistent buff so that something could somehow make up for losing that that hitstun. And now you are doing the same thing with this possible Jet Upper change. I’m just saying, those changes are not a huge loss in the grand scheme of how Dudley plays.
I get that you would like your moves to work the same or better, I’d like that too, but it just sounds like one negative change and one speculative negative change gives you tunnel vision or something. You’ve already said that you will try and not let it get to you, but I am just saying that you shouldn’t even have to try. His buffs and general lack of nerfs compared to the rest of the cast should give you reason enough to welcome the coming changes rather than hope for some extra, nonexistent changes in the eventual DLC to correct what you dislike.
Anyway, we are on the gentlemen’s forum, so I’ll just leave it at that. I’m overreacting about other people overreacting, so I’ll try and heed my own advice since I’m sounding a bit of a hypocrite. I’m going to the arcade again today in a little while, so I will make sure to test Jet upper combos. If you have any specific ones you’d like me to try let me know.
I listed it because it’s a common combo and the amount of pushback. It works in SSF4, if HP JU changed or there’s added pushback somewhere it might not work.
I’m brushing up on doing those combos in training right now, and I am already noticing at least one spacing related way to whiff HP JU from midscreen after successfully comboing into RH.
cr.lk, cr.LP, RH xx HP JU against ibuki. It whiffs if you do it from just slightly too far.
I am doing them against ibuki because she has both a small hitbox, but f.MK, st.MP still works on her.
Ibuki isn’t a very good choice for standard combos. She is one of the few members of the fact and sometimes the only member of the cast that will cause Dudley’s standard combos to whiff.
I am using her because all of those combos he asked to have me check work on her from midscreen. But She is also demonstrating to me that you can position it to have the canceled upper whiff. it is a very small spacing difference for that combo I just mentioned to hit or whiff, so that makes me think that it is possible the ones that we were seeing whiff on videos were of a similarly narrow margin.
So, if I play against a character with a less fickle hitbox than her at the arcade, and the combo starts whiffing at point blank, I’ll know something is up immediately. I do have to test things in the midst of a game, so I want to make sure I can identify the little differences on the fly.
I just got word that the stick on player 2 side at the arcade is pretty broken right now. So I might not head out tonight. I don’t really want to waste gas to just test combos against the AI. If I get word that the maintenance man gets it in order I’ll still head out tonight. Otherwise I’ll probably go tomorrow instead.
** Just got back from going to the arcade. Didn’t get too many games in since it was pretty crowded. My ibuki playing friend was there so it gave me a nice comparison to my earlier tests. Unfortunately the player 2 stick was definitely pretty broken (one of the springs was shot, very wobbly), but I still got to learn a number of things. And even with a broken stick I felt like Dudley was doing fine.
Good news and bad. Of the 3 combos that X asked me to test, I only got a chance to land two of them a few times. F.MK -> s.MP -> s.RH xx HP jet upper still works fine at midscreen on her. So does canceling it into EX upper and MP upper. Didn’t get a chance to do a LP one, but I think it is safe to assume that still works.
I tried out cr. LK -> cr.LP -> S.RH xx HP jet upper and the cancel whiffed on two occasions. So I do think that cr. LK has a little extra pushback. I didn’t get a chance to land it on other characters so I can’t tell if the pushback is significant enough to make it whiff on everyone or not. I also Don’t know if LP Upper still combos on her or not, since it has farther horizontal range. Canceling this combo int ex MGB and LK Ducking upper still works fine though. I think that cr. LK -> s.RH xx HP JU leaves you close enough. It isn’t as good of a hit confirm, but it also doesn’t mean landing an upper off of a cr. LK is currently out of the question.
I did not get a chance to land a f.RH -> cr.LP -> s.RH xx HP upper. But crouch jab does not seem to have any difference in pushback in this game to me. I am also fairly certain that overhead into RH will leave you close enough for an upper with ease. But I will definitely try to confirm these in the next few days rather than just speculate.
On the very positive side of things. Ex ducking got me out of Ibuki’s vortex. So using its upper body invulnerability against certain jump in situations seems like it has a lot of potential. There is also the chance of it auto correcting the wrong way if you do it at the wrong time. But at one point, it got me out of it clean.
f. HK sHK xx HP JU - I see no reason why it shouldn’t work still.
Sucks that crLK might have more pushback, I was saying it needs less pushback for a while lol.
Videos:
[media=youtube]Uxcr0QaZTN4[/media]
[media=youtube]X6Z6bUxaSvM[/media] (not even 1 minute in and he gets a CH sHK Duck ;_
[media=youtube]6z1cUteMavg[/media] (Jump to 12 min)
[media=youtube]ob6sNOSyAl4[/media] (Jump to 10:37, @ 9:53 Gen Ultra 2 is so ass)
[media=youtube]JnzGUMVFji4[/media] (Jump to 4:30)
doesn’t look like s.rh xx ex duck s.rh links, i tried a few times but i didn’t really test how fast ex duck recovers.
c.lp s.rh xx lp dp WHIFFED on yang. he whiffed a wake up dp on me, and i got in and wanted c.lp s.rh xx lp dp, ex duck upper, but the lp whiffed and my jaw dropped (like my combo).
time to adjust my punish combos. (yes i know i should be doing f.mk s.rh)
more push back on cr.lk? wow that’s really goin’ to hurt dudley’s 50/50 oki really bad. How are you gonna oki Balrog? his hitbox is already wierd as it is… more push back means you need to hit confirm cr.lk into st.hk? I really don’t know how you would fight Balrog now on wake-up.
