Dragon Ball FighterZ: Legendary Saiyans Edition

Current Fighting Games Dragon Ball FighterZ
7042

ummmm no deflects are not open to lows who the fuck said that? There multiple videos showing deflect deflects lows… Also IF you have successfully deflected you become invincible to ALL attacks, you cant even be thrown.

And I think you are forgetting what I say in every post which is amazing so how the fuck could you miss it. For fireballs, not beams, you can do them out of block stun. You are not doing them raw. You are canceling your block stun into it. So there is NO guessing, if you have blocked a regular fireball, you can mash homing dash to cancel your block stun or deflect.

There is no guessing.

You are not doing it raw, there is no guess. You block, then do it. And if we are to go by the logic of say games like GG, where you can block attack in the air, and then land and ALPHA counter/ dead angle. We could theoretically purposely run into any fireball that we see, to make ourselves invincible. Which I was asking if anyone has tried this specific example.

Do you see what im getting at? This is not rocket science. If something changes in the final version of the game so be it, but versions before hand have shown the rest to be true. Where are you getting that if you are invincible you can be mixed up. What kind of logic is that. If you are invincible how can you be hit?

Anyway the situations I am describing there are no mixs ups, we are not doing raw deflects with timing. We are in situations where we can deflect for FREE to make us invincible untill WE decide what to do. Because as it is now, that is what a successful deflect does.

7043

Tbh Kid Goku that transforms into SSJ4 Goku would be sick, with the staff and having a ssj4 form would make him quite unique eventhough it’s another Goku.
That screenshot however looks fake as shit, tail is too flat/2d and the pants should be yellow instead of the obvious regular Goku orange.

7044
7045

Here all post I believe the same video again I posted well back in september for how old this is…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bbClF5eTCU&t

go to 4:42…

Lets go through this step by step since apparently its confusing…

Watch these are many of the situations I am talking about, we have a character that calls vegetas assist, instead blocking it on the ground, allowing himself to be mixed up. He jumps in the air blocks. No mix up can occur as he is blocking in the air. The game does not have a regular throw system to discourage any sort of empty jumping whatever you want to call it in the first place as well. So character blocks fireballs. Lands still in block, still cant be thrown.

So with this we can theorize as I said back during the summer chicken guarding in this game is very powerful because we do not have enough to discourage it mechanically speaking…

But wait theres more… What if we go by the rules we know that moves that count as a fireball, we can cancel are block stun with a homing dash or a deflect. We know deflecting IF successful makes you INVINCIBLE for the duration of it and can be canceled into something even other deflects if there is something to deflect to continue to make ourselves invincible. We now are at the ready to make our decision or at the very least instead of being mixed up, we have reset the situation to neutral and now it is not a mix up per say but a guessing of what we both would do after. We apparently cant even be thrown after we have deflected something. Again there is no GUESS. Because we have blocked and deflected it is counted as successful.

And now wait to take this a further step again what I said about GG and why I showed this video specifically. If other games made by arc work, where we can jump in the air and block, then land and alpha counter. Well can we confirm(which again this specific one I can not for the time being but)deflect when we land?

Its fair to assume that is quite plausible and I would need to see its impossible first.

And thats what im getting at in general for characters that have fireball lock downs, lets think of for sake of argument that deflecting is like a alpha counter in that it takes a super bar. Well in this game it doesnt. And we assume the alpha counter is unpunishable. So with that idea in mind… What is stopping us from instead of letting the opponent set up a bunch of fireballs like beerus, we could purposely jump into them and block if its convenient to reset the flow of the match instead of letting him start whatever…

If buus fireball counts as a regular fireball… Whats to stop us from just mashing deflect?

Again I said I think they should tone down deflect because it could be to good, and I hope that it does have some sort of weakness. But right now other videos have proven that to be false. So will see for the final version of game or the beta whatever.

7046

Toilet Goku would shit on people.

7047

show me a video of deflect going through a low, people that did videos talking about the beta as well as Novril’s guide mention that they are open to lows, mainly coz of the obvious input flaw in being back+special, similar to kof’s throws.

Can you do back to back deflects even if there’s no more fireballs? and if it doesn’t deflect anything is it still invincible? is it invincible from frame 1? is there recovery thats punishable? honestly there’s lots we don’t know so it’s hard to judge how useful it really is.

Edit coz i didnt see the above post before posting:
Yeah i agree that landing frames being unthrowable should be changed, or how deflects work off of blockstun, honestly I doubt they’ll keep them fully invincible in the final version, and if they are they will be changed if people find ways to abuse it.

Chicken blocking seems super buff I don’t think anyone is disagreeing about this, but everyone is holding out till we get our hands on the final release version. Hell even if the one being playing is the release version previous arcsys games have had day 1 patches so there’s still a chance of changes.

7048

Yeah, guess kid Buu can stand right next to cell since his Buu ball works like cells spin thingy that goes into more combo options.

Sad that nappa hasn’t had a chance to show off like the others have. The chars that really stand out to me atm are kid buu, piccolo, cell, berrus and freezia.

Hope to see more of nappa and Vegeta blue.

7049

it would be in ultra instinct serious mode of course.

7050

sorry dude I do not have videos at the ready of someone deflecting a low. I didn’t realize I needed to come here something that has obviously been showing many times. As if ive been wrong before all these times in the first place.

Honestly I dont know whos guide you are referring to but people have been posting all sorts of bullshit that isnt true or false. Did someone miss a raw deflect on a low so it must not work? Wow people miss things that doesnt mean its not possible. And here there is NO missing, I am referring to situations where it can not be missed. Deflect is back fireball right? Or whatever. The idea is that you can block ONE hit, of one fireball. You mash deflect. You blocked something so you can do it.

If there are no more fireballs to deflect and you are not in block stun then no you couldnt deflect unless there is some bug. I mean why could you? That doesnt make any logical sense to me. Its impossible to not deflect anything if you are in block stun and do it because that counts as the deflect.

Thats like saying I blocked a attack, but he didnt attack me again so I cant alpha counter. What kinda logic is that?

As for recovery like I said if it is successful you are invincible till it ends and you decide what you want to do.

Its start up apparently its frame one because although I have not seen this particular example that was spoken of someone tried knocked the guy down, then did meaty kamehameha assist and then tried to throw. Guy woke up with reversal deflect, deflected fireball and could not be thrown.

Anyway will it change I don’t know, but thats how it works for now, and if the idea that you can jump into things to block them that like other games let you then alpha counter when you land. Well if you can deflect too. Assuming its realistic to do so, and doesnt take some strange timing that could be very powerful and im wondering what there is to discourage that in a game with no real throw mix up etc.

And again this goes back to a potential conundrum of the game a lot of the potential best lock down moves, that a “good” player might destroy a lesser player with. Potential vs another “good” player who knows what they are doing might not matter at all, because the counter to it, is just that potentially powerful. Thats why I said im actually wondering if this works, and it is possible to easily discourage a character like beerus from setting up all this mix up sorta stuff(Which already could be hard in a game with no real wake up game comparatively speaking)he could go from that character archetype to actually just the annoying one, trying to run away and chip you to death to basically with hits here and there making it more annoying to get to him.

Oh also dont forget another stupid thing that i hope they change, deflect makes you take no block damage. I know I posted it during the beta, even for the few moves that do noticable block damage like krillins destructo disc someone was blocking fireballs then he went and shot all his discs, so he deflected out of the fireball and deflected the discs he took NO block damage from the discs now.

7051

While im not going to go video hunting, i can vouch for Duck, on seeing a video where Deflect blocks lows.

7052

we literally all knew you could deflect lows like 5 months ago lmao

7053

Can’t just homing dash out of lock down fireballs because you can still get punished hard. If you’re just deflecting than I could just time a second assist call when it’s done and instant air dash over you to fuck up your inputs

7054

Homing dash is not the discussion at hand its only mentioned in passing. I have already discussed this already in other posts. As for calling other assists, what does this matter because once you block a fireball its not like your deflect does not deflecting other attacks, it deflects everything until its done or you stop. Messing up inputs is irrelevant as well because what is to stop me from just… jumping? what are you gonna… Air throw me? Do a ground attack that you have to FD to block? A dp? Well those basic ideas to stop jumping do not exist in this game.

Whatever the case we are jumping ahead, most certainly I have no doubt there are ways to counter everything, there is no just one layer of depth to a game.

But what I am commenting on, is in this particular situations, IF it is possible and realistic to do things like jumping in to attacks and the game allows you to deflect when you land. The discussion/topic is about that in terms of this mix up. It does not actually exist. If possible at worst we would assume that we are at neutral. So yes, you could try to mess up my inputs, yes I could jump. But this is then now not a mix up really. You are the one that was supposed to be at a advantage, and now YOU are trying to counter ME. We have reset the mind game/flow of the match if you will. It is not a this guy is stuck in block stun, am I going to go high or low. Because if this stays the same way in versions of the game to come… It does not exist theoretically.

This is the idea im getting at. So yes what you said… could be true. But this doesnt stop me from doing it. Why would I not deflect? Im invincible, and i wont take block damage from anything. Im protected from highs and lows, and now we just reset the situation at worst. So then we get to again ya… How easy is it to just stop me me from then jumping?

Currently, not a lot.

So ya mix ups different layers to every game no doubt. I am only commenting on this specific portion of the meta though and even more specifically if the jumping and landing one is possible.

7055

If you’re mashing deflect and I air dash over you, wouldn’t your deflect be cancelled into a jab, thus getting hit.

Also if you tried to jump out of a lockdown fireball it would hit you out of your prejump frames. Unless this game is like marvel 3 but I don’t think it is

7056

I COULD learn how to deflect.

Or, I could play Hit.

Decisions, deciHIT TIME BABY!

7057

Opponents don’t get pushed back when non-physical attacks get deflected. Even if they deflect the ball from block, they’re not going anywhere. It still has the same effect as a safe jump meaty. Plus, ball lasts a long time you would need to deflects to get past the entire thing. It’s not gonna be “You can go ham all the while this is out”, but you can still set up something while it’s going on and then mix them up when it ends. This is also assuming that it even has the property that allows it to be deflected through, not ALL projectiles can.

7058

Why would a deflect be canceled into a jab when its the fireball button if you dash over me?

Remember once you have successfully deflected… ahem… Im not sure how many times Ive said this now… You are completely. Invincible until it ends. You can cancel it into anything. You can not be punished. If you dashed over me, why couldnt I just press the other direction? Point is that we are discussing there is no high low mix up now. Fireballs dont push back the opponent? You only get pushed back if you did a physical attack? Well no shit sherlock. So are you saying you … don’t attack me then? Well then… I guess I was right. What mix up is there if the opponent is not attacking me? Which goes back to what I said, when moves count as a fireball, and if buus fireball also counts like this, this is actually better for combos, not mix up. In terms of mix up beams would be better. If there is some thought that again trying to screw up my inputs, again we have seen videos(or at least I thought we have ,I mean I just keep making up all this stuff constantly right)where a single deflect deflects multiple hits. It deflects as many as it needs to. 1…2…10. Whatever. So say you are trying to mess up inputs… well is there no potential rhythm to it? Or timing? Whats to stop me from just watching my character and eventually we even learn the timing by muscle memory to only press deflect at the exact end of the deflect swipe to say do another one? Do I have to attack instantly? Do I have to jump instantly?

It doesn’t matter, I can do whatever the fuck I want. And thats the point which apparently you guys have proven me right. This is what im getting at… WHAT is discouraging someone once they are block stun, even for a mil second, from hitting… back+s if the opponent has been a deflectable move.

NOTHING. There is no, oh he can be hit during recovery. Because there is none.

There is no hit him low.

There is no throw him.

You talk about oh you might jump into a fireball. Why do I have to jump into a fireball? Im invincible… Vegetas fireball is 16 or something right? Well I just went back and watched some videos I see single parrys deflecting 10 hits at once just with one swipe. So dig this. I could mash swipe like a mother fucker and try to somehow do 16 swipes or some shit. Or since I know the entire swipe is invincable, maybe ill just do it a couple times, then when I see its over… Then ill jump out, then ill decide what I want to do. Because… well… Im invincible.

I have reset the flow of the match. Can you now try to counter what im gonna do? Yes. Can you guess what im gonna do? yes. Can you try to discourage what im gonna do yes.

Can you stop me from deflecting and stopping your mix up before this. Well… No you cant. Because nothing punishes a successful parry right now. Will it be different in a new version of the game. Sure it could be, but right now in the builds we have seen. This is how it works. As for the jumping into attacks and landing again, going by what we have seen, and how other games work. I want to see it not work first. Or how hard it is… how reasonable it is. Then that can be discredited. But for other stuff still stands. What I said, for moves that count as long hitting fireballs because of the properties of the game are gonna be better for combos than mix ups, because the game is just made that way right now. I went back and I watched those game informer or whatever videos… Go watch… Lots of parrys there. Some single parrys, some canceling the parrys to other things. Nothing was punished. And these were just raw, no actual using the block stun idea with it to make it safe to do in the first place.

As for pre jump frames whatever, im not worried about anything like getting hit during pre jump frames right now because id rather error on the side of a game like GG wheres its possible than a game like marvel.

So ya, ah… not sure what the argument is. I stand by it, I think one of the games I said day one, to many defensive options, teaching that is way to invincible, no real reset system, no real throws, deflecting to hard to discourage if even possible period in many situations. Again maybe it will change but right now you guys are trying to argue that parrying doesnt matter for mix ups because… you can choose not to attack me, and that you can try to guess what im gonna do after I parry etc. Well how does that make any sense. Id rather parry when I can, make it so I take no block damage from any of these specials and then let us both guess what we are gonna do after that instead… hey im gonna block then im just gonna decide if I have to block high or low.

7059

If you’re mashing back and special when I dash over you, you are going to throw out a fire ball, and in a meaty situation you are going to get hit.

You do know you will still get hit out of start up of anything you do after of a deflect, if it’s a meaty situation. So it doesn’t matter if you’re completely invincible til you act, because when you do finally do act you’ll be getting hit.

7060

It’s implied that it’s true blockstun, if he dashes over you you’ll just do nothing not throw out a fireball.

Uh, the point was that it acts as a safe meaty. The point was that you’re still in place even after deflecting, so you can mix them up AFTER the ball ends rather than while it’s happening. I still think it’s gonna be really good at keeping the opponent in place for meaties with the various tech systems so then you can run your mixups without having to worry about changing wakeup timing rather than mixups WHILE the ball is going on.

7061

why …can i not react to you dashing over me? I already covered deflect lasts for a long time, it is not some JF thing where I must react when I parry multiple things. I can do it as slow or as fast as I want. It doesnt matter. You know we have videos of a SINGLE parry, lasting for the duration of someone calling a assist, and attack at the same time and it parried it all. With one parry. There was no need to parry the multiple hits multiple times, he only had to parry it once. You know that deflect… also does it behind you do… we have videos of people deflecting fireballs in the front they teleported then while still in the same animation when the guy kicks behind him, it still parries him away from behind. With out changing anything.

I dont have to do anything, im invincible dude. Again point stands, you can not stop me from deflecting and resetting the situation. You are already getting into ways to try to counter what IM going to do. Which then means again… so… I was correct that you cant stop me from stopping your mix up, and now you are trying to counter what im gonna do. So before hand if you call a assist you could go high, low… Now…you are saying you are going to air dash over me, and hope that the instant I was trying to deflect you crossed over me and I got hit. But… deflecting doesnt take timing once its missed, I can mash fast, i can mash slow… I dont have to mash period. Hell… I can call a assist since im not in true stun anymore and you just wasted your assist to cover me if I was so afraid that you might be guessing what im gonna do. Which guessing what im gonna do is still implying a further depth layer, and still implying… You couldnt stop me from deflecting in the first place.

Which gets into what I said right now I think theres to many options for the defender, even before this parry thing look what I posted above in the video. You can see a assist jump up to block it, you cant be mixed up in the air… Then he lands , guys tries to throw. And we know throws are damn fucking slow in this game, and what happens… nothing. Look how long that was.

We have seen videos of characters teching in the air hella high, then landing doing a move and it still saying reversal. WAAAAAAAY to much invincibility.

Will any of this change maybe… but right now, you guys aren’t proving what I said wrong, you guys are now trying to counter what I did. Not mixing me up. Because nothing is stopping me from actual deflecting.

I think it should have counters i already said, shouldnt be throw invincible, i think there should be specific moves that cant be parried to bait it. As it is right now as I envision it if it stays the same, I see no reason for people once they no what they are doing to just deflect like a mother fucker at every instant. Its gonna be hella common if it stays the same and maybe lure wise it will look cool, and be kinda hype to watch, but meta wise, not having any real counter is a problem. I think it would be way more hype again if there were certain moves that could not be deflected to add to the mind game and bait stuff.