So I just got this gifted to me on Steam.
Anyone have any recommendations on websites to read up on characters / strategies? Never played DotA, but played a decent amount of modded Warcraft 3.
Thanks
playdota.com is a really good start if you’re new. Just read the basic guides. Most of the hero guides aren’t bad either.
you’re all noobs
i might have bit off more than i could chew, don’t have the patience to get into all techinical aspects of the game and forum back and forths. My point is and still stands, vulpes : you’re an idiot i think you’re the type who talks a good game, but prolly sucks. Can’t take you seriously, esp when you try to disregard BAT when it comes to last hitting. Anything and everything dealing with the speed of last hitting matters. Can’t disregard any of it. Be happy to scrim your squad or 1v1 you . Cuz you’re shit and i would like to prove that.
To that long post, I apreciate your attempt to explain it, but might have been a tad unnecessary for me. I have long experience with dota. I used beast as an example because he has a passive that essentially affects his bat. Yes i know techinically it’s ias or w/e the fuck, but very few heroes have a passive that does that, so i consider it inherent to him, not item driven. So yes it applies to him, not the actual animation (which as you explains also is really good). Maybe i could use anti mage as a better example of how bat matters fresh out the gate? Cuz that kid hits pretty fast and such. But thanks for the effort!
Might be… now if that were true, would any of my 100% correct statements become wrong? Ad hominem?
No. Neither BAT nor general attackspeed matters, because for lasthitting you attack ONCE and that one attack is completely dependent on attackstartup and completely independent of attackspeed.
Attackspeed/BAT becomes relevant in the following case: An enemy creep is attacked by, say, two melee creeps of yours. You attack that enemy creep too early, causing it to live with a sliver of health. Now, if you have high AS / low BAT, you might manage to get a 2nd hit on said creep before it’s killed by yours, securing the lasthit anyways.
That’s the only case where AS/BAT is relevant for last hitting (and the 1% I accounted for by stating it’s 99% irrelevant). Oh well, it’s obviously also relevant for eg flashfarming -particularly with a Bfury- but that’s not exactly related to lasthitting in a standard laning scenario.
We could also meet up in a dark alleyway and duke it out like men with our bare fists. What exactly would that prove?
He too doesn’t care about his BAT in regards to last hitting, but lives off his 0.3 attack point (which is as good as it gets)…
Random sidenote
You level Beastmasters Aura in the laning phase? Really?
you don’t attack a creep once to last hit. the metagame of last hitting doesn’t revolve around you actually sitting there waiting to literally get the last hit. Which is why i say you’re a retard to try to disregard all this. The reason why I would love to play against you is to prove my theory that you’re a moron who talks a lot but doesn’t know how it actually matters in game. Cuz you don’t just sit there waiting to get a last hit. there is a metagame to last hitting against an opponent, and there is a lot of factors on how to win the cs’ing battle INCLUDING YOUR HEROE’S BAT. it’s not to be disregarded. nor is it a 1% thing either.
And on a sidenote , yes in situations i do actually level his aura in the laning phase.
But anyway this is my last post on this. I’m not huge into forum debates, and back and forths. Clearly this is your thing. But don’t talk so much shit , and not back it up when called on it. That’s just pathetic imo. Man up.
edit: although maybe not as important as other factors, such as dmg and animation, it does matter. speed matters. i’m just saying bat matters more than the 1% exxageration you were throwing out there to be condescending to whoever it was that sparked this all. Peace
Did you read any of my post whatsoever or did you seriously only get butthurt at Vulpes, tell him he sucks, and then proceed to challenge him?
Really? Did this thread just have a literal “you’re wrong, 1v1 me noob”? I don’t know if I should laugh or be sad.
***“To that long post, I apreciate your attempt to explain it, but might have been a tad unnecessary for me. I have long experience with dota. I used beast as an example because he has a passive that essentially affects his bat. Yes i know techinically it’s ias or w/e the fuck, but very few heroes have a passive that does that, so i consider it inherent to him, not item driven. So yes it applies to him, not the actual animation (which as you explains also is really good). Maybe i could use anti mage as a better example of how bat matters fresh out the gate? Cuz that kid hits pretty fast and such. But thanks for the effort!” ***
This is what i wrote to you. Clearly addressed to you. so laugh and/or be sad on your own.
One of my troubles i suppose is people who like to theorycraft. Normally those people say shit that has no real application whatsoever. In regards to your long post, i did address it. and thanked you for posting it. Just it didn’t necessarily apply because beast has an inherent ability that affects his bat/ias. Which is what i was originally implying by bringing him up. Which you didn’t consider obviously , because your soliloquy made no mention of it. But because you were trying to be helpful in a respectful manner, i didn’t invest a lot of time to address your post.
I found a distinction between the way you present information, and the way vulpes does, so most of my time and energy was invested in that. Butthurt? not at all. I found his tone condescending, proceeded to tell him to check that shit at the door, and then prove to him and to anyone else paying attention, that this kid should not be taken seriously, when he infact sucks at this game he professes to be an expert at.
THEY RELEASED CENTAUR?
I have been away for too long… Blink Dagger + 5 Tarrasque’s?
AND MAGNATAUR???
It doesn’t essentially effect his BAT, it literally does not. It gives him IAS, though, so it does determine his attack time.
Attack Time = (1+IAS)/BAT
So instead of effecting his Base Attack Time, it effects his Attack Time. It’s different, but I see what you are saying. Your sentiment is correct but your terminology is wrong, but I can understand; in my opinion it makes sense for Base Attack Time to include things that are base on your character, like IAS from agility gain, but unfortunately it doesn’t.
I’m going to do some experiments in a custom match right now to get some facts straight, I’ll report here when I’m done.
This is some high level dota nerd talk.
Okay, went into a bot game, confirmed my knowledge. Making a seperate post for this:
I spawned both Beastmaster and Anti-Mage in a bot game. Both of them have an identical attack point of 0.3, but BM has a BAT of 1.7, and AM has a BAT of 1.5.
I highlighted both of them, put them within melee range of an enemy bot, and gave both of them an attack order at the same time. They both did their damage at the exact same time, with Anti-Mage’s next attack being much faster, of course. Going further;
1 point in BM’s Aura: they both still attacked at the same time.
2 points in aura, BM level 3, AM level 1: they both still attacked at the same time.
3 points in aura, BM level 5, AM level 1: they both still attacked at the same time.
4 points in aura, BM level 7, AM level 1: they both still attacked at the same time.
BM with a butterfly and 4 points in aura, AM level 1 with no items: BM’s damage happened slightly earlier.
BM with two butterflies and 4 points in aura, AM level 1 with no items: BM’s damage happens noticeably earlier.
The only time your attack point is earlier and your attack animation is sped up is when your Attack Time (a factor of BAT and IAS) becomes shorter than your character’s attack animation, forcing it to be scaled in order to match the cooldown. (For Beastmaster, this means your Attack Time [(1+IAS)/BAT] must be lower than 1.0 seconds which is the length of his autoattack animation) BAT will never in any level 1 situation speed up a character’s attack animation. Furthermore, Beastmaster’s aura alone does not speed up his attack animation.
Go into a bot game and try repeatedly attacking a minion with Beastmaster. Notice how after doing his autoattack completely, he stands there idling for a while before attacking again? Yeah, that’s what you’re getting rid of, and getting rid of that doesn’t help you last hit at all unless you’re letting your character autoattack creeps.
EDIT: The formula up there gives you Attacks Per Second, not Attack Time.
So in order for your attack animation to speed up, the answer to that equation has to be more than the length of your character’s attack animation, not less.
Hawk: He didn’t deny that. He is just under the impression that for lasthitting the AS matters a lot because you attack a lot. Or something. Here:
A thing I actually forgot are cases where 2 creeps at the same time get lowered quickly (be that 1 of yours and 1 of the opponents, or just 2 of either side) - here lower BAT / higher AS actually can be the difference between getting 2 lasthits or one. But he doesn’t seem to be talking about that either. Yes, it sounds like he is autoattacking.
Lol, I don’t mean to poke fun at all but the line about ‘literally sitting there waiting to get the last hit’ made me laugh a bit.
That’s exactly what you should be doing (albeit moving around to stay out of harass range and moving in to get the literal last hit).
I would agree with the others that it sounds like your talking about auto attacking creeps which is bad unless you are trying to push the lane. But then if your pushing the lane we are talking about something different altogether.
For Anyone in this thread who might not know, if you are in the lane NEVER auto attack if you are just trying to last hit and farm in the early to mid game. Any auto attacks you do will help push the lane towards your opponents tower and you will have to fall back and possibly miss out on last hits/denies from under their tower. Always try to get the very last hit on a creep and deny your own to try and keep the position of the creeps in the same place.
If it’s too far up and you want to pull it back have a support creep pull for you (in the safe lane or mid) or when your creeps get under 50%hp start to hit them a little so they die faster and the wave pushes back towards your tower.
At least thats what I’ve found effective. If that’s not accurate information please feel free to correct it.
This makes sense but that problem is able to be solved by seeing a situation like that ahead of time and not letting it happen (i.e throwing in an extra attack to make a creep get lower faster, so you have time to hit both)
I reached this conclusion a lot later than I should have.
Shut up, nerds.
Shaddup SpiritBomb
wow. we really should get a game going. W/e i’ll leave it alone.
And no i don’t auto attack.
edit : i’m on right now doing osme pubs. And i honestly am getting the feeling a lot of you don’t play competitively or higher level. Cuz to claim laughter and then say yes you sohuld be sitting there waiting to get the last hit on a creep, i dunno. i’ll bow out this thread. If you want to actually play a game , i can show u more then tell ya. Peace out
None of us are saying that. In fact, I emphasized that you should not do that.
I don’t see how you “showing” us would be better than explaining it. The fact we’re able to explain it more articulately demonstrates that we have a higher understanding than you do, actually, so…