DAMN that sucks! Good luck with that dude.
Speaking in ST:
In general, Honda vs Dhalsim is the easiest projectile character match for Honda IMO. It is a pretty even match IF the Dhalsim player is an amazing one.
Shirts back in the day even with his O Sim gave me the toughest Dhalsim matches I’ve ever played until I went to Japan and played Gian. Ouch.
In HDR, I feel like in general just about all of Honda’s matches got tougher to varying degrees but Dhalsim is the one match where I think it stayed pretty much the same or improved in level of difficulty. A lot of the changes to both characters don’t seem to come into play as much as in other matchups.
Kurropi your the first person I’ve seen that agrees with how I feel, almost all of Honda’s matches are tougher in HDR. And since your probably the best US ST Honda player out there I’d say you know what you’re talking about, LOL. He’s supposed to be better against fireball characters in HDR but overall I’d say this isn’t true at all. Jab headbutt is very limited in it’s usefullness and good players have adjusted to his jumping short. Plus his Ochio throw is weaker (much less stun, no more “loop” in corner) and HHS does less damage, less priority, hurting him in all his match-ups.
Ryu is much tougher in HDR (fake fireball), R.Ken is a much better character than N.Ken (no O.Ken is nice, though), Jumping short is nice against Guile, but HK flashkick can hit some of Honda’s main pokes against him (cr.MP, towards+HK sweep) on reaction so it’s about a wash. DeeJay and Sim are the only matches I think got better for him, we’ve talked about Sim and the only thing to change in the DeeJay macth-up is jumping short beats his HK slide (but still loses clean to his cr.MK, so most DJ’s have adapted).
All of Honda’s easy match-ups got harder beacuse all the characters are better in HDR. Fei, Cammy, Zangief, and Bison I think are mucher tougher in HDR, still in Honda’s favor but not nearly as much as in ST. Gief in particular.
It’s funny because in the early days of HDR everyone was saying Honda was upper tier in HDR, I always said he was better in ST. I think he was stronger in ST, but I do think he is much more fun in HDR.
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Is he really the first person? I believe I’ve said it many times. Maybe not on here.
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The floating fierce buff helps vs DeeJay like wonders as well.
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Yeah Gief is much better vs Honda in HDR. You also forgot to add Blanka on that list. Electricity being only 3 punches, his ball being able for use, and Honda’s nerfs make Honda much easier to beat.
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Well, he’s the 1st one I’ve seen post it, LOL.
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The new floating fierce is nice, and it does help against DeeJays longer fireball, but it doesn’t make a huge impact in his match-ups. It just takes a little more timing in ST (but your right, it is a lot easier against DeeJay).
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Good points, Blanka is a little tougher as well (all his “easy” match-ups are). There still isn’t anything he can do against a down+back holding turtle Honda, though, LOL. Gief, Fei and Cammy just seem the most noticable to me from ST to HDR.
Edit: loving all the Honda thread activity! LOL.
All of Honda’s easy matches getting tougher was the whole point of rebalancing ST IMO. In ST Honda used to dominate characters like Zangief, Blanka, Cammy, Fei and Hawk, and he still does dominate to a lesser degree in HDR. If those matches are tougher for Honda in HDR compared to ST, then I would say Sirlin did a good job of buffing up those characters.
The problem, is that Honda was not buffed up enough to make his fireball matches easier.
I very strongly disagree with the claim that Honda-fireball matches are harder in HDR than they were in old ST. Yes, I’ve played both versions, even fairly recently. I claim that Ryu, Ken, Guile, Deejay, Dhalsim, Chun Li and Sagat are all easier for Honda in HDR than they are in old ST.
I have a question concerning Honda’s HHS.
I’ve seen some Honda players walk up to their opponents and INSTANT HHS. I mean, after a normal or a special move, it’s very understandable…but after a simple walk-up?
How is that possible? Turbo controllers? Or should I switch to a stick in order to piano motion those instant HHS? What’s the trick?
I have never ever seen an “instant” walk-up HHS. I’m 99% sure that what you actually saw was simply a whiffed fast normal (such as stand jab) into HHS, or using blockstun or jumps to buffer the HHS startup.
Yeah I’m pretty sure it’s impossible to just walk up and hands. No matter how fast the buttons are pressed. (turbo) A normal will always come out.
In HDR, you should be able to do a HHS in 5 frames, so it should cancel the third frame of a normal. Like, input lag aside:
jab press (nothing happens, grounded normal), strong press (jab comes out), fierce press (second jab frame), jab press (third jab frame), strong press (HHS comes out).
That method doesn’t work. To get jab HHS, you need to press (and release) jab three times, hitting strong or fierce will not do anything to help. You’re probably getting confused with SF4 here.
You kind of just mash in ST. Press standing jab and mash Mp or Hp hands while the jab is out and you should have the hands you’re mashing come out.
Also you’re pianoing for hands wrong oldschool. You always have to end the “piano” taps with a HP for maximum quality. Mp hands is like never used in SF4.
Shit, that’s true. It would still cancel the third frame of one of the punches:[LIST=1]
[]punch press (nothing happens, grounded normal)
[]punch release (punch comes out)
[]punch press (second punch frame)
[]punch release (third punch frame)
[*]punch press (HHS comes out).
[/LIST]
Honda’s standing punches have either 4 or 5 start-up frames, so it would cancel before becoming active.
Well, I believe I have never even picked Honda in HDR, so I don’t know shit. Which you could guess, after checking Thelo’s reply! But it is not really the way I do, I have just thought it used the SF4 command and did not really care for the version. Anyway, at Sirlin’s blog, complete change list, I have found this:
I am pretty sure it is five presses in VST. Am I wrong again??
You think Ryu is easier in HDR? I find jab HB and jumping short not that usefull against upper level Ryus and fake fireball just kills me, I can’t do a lot of things quickly on reaction because of the fake.
Dhalsim I think is easier. Sagat is easier just because it’s not O.Sagat, though jab HB does work well against his long arms. So I’ll give you those two.
Guile and Deejay are about a wash, I think. It is easier to get in on them, but not by much and Honda does less damage when he does get in (HHS nerf, Ochio dizzy nerf, no Ochio loop). Guile has the HK flashkick now which is a factor when playing footsies with him when he’s in the corner. It makes trying to hit expected SonicBooms with toward+HK much more dangerous. I think it’s close rather they’re better, same, or worse.
Chun is probably better, your right. Her Super does less damage and no guessing on Flipping Neck Breaker on wake-up outweigh Honda’s damage nerfs.
Ken feels about the same, R.Ken is better than N.Ken, but not having O.Ken is very nice.
I also get that the Super is actually a threat now, so that does help a lot. I probably don’t use the Super as much as I should because I went all those years with it being useless in most match-ups, LOL. Easier HHS makes HHS pressure easier. Overall the match-ups may have improved, but not by as much as I think non-Honda players think. I really don’t think he moved up any on the tier list, and if anything I just feel like he’s a bit more of a powerhouse in ST. The match-ups changed slightly but the results seem about the same. Hopefully HDR lives as long as ST has so we can see the overall long term effects of the changes.
I personally do better in VST vs every character except Claw and O.gat. Fake fireball is just too good vs my reaction and Ken’s Hp SRK is redunk. Possum also mentioned Guile’s Hk flash kick. That also bucks my day up.
Ehh I don’t think the changes are that drastic where the game has more in it to be discovered. At least for Honda.
People seem to discount the jab headbutt a lot, overall. Having it is a huuuuuuuge deal against Deejay in particular, he doesn’t have a good punish for it, and it really changes Chun too. You can’t use it on reaction, but having the constant threat of jab headbutt is three million times better than not having it, seriously. And yeah the usable super is also a huge deal since Honda builds meter so easily, most dramatically vs Ken. I could go on but jab headbutt and super are imho the two most underrated Honda tools out there.
One thing I’m curious about that you’ve mentioned is Guile roundhouse flash kick. How do you get hit by that? I have found it to be a total non-factor myself. Mostly when I lose to Guile, it’s to his crouch fierce and jump fierce.
Edit: By the way, even in old ST, Chun’s neckbreaker never crosses-up Honda, so that hasn’t changed much 
Guile can punish Honda’s forward/backward standing Hk with his new flash kick I think. It’s also pretty easy just HK flash kick instantly when you see Honda walk up at a close distance(comes out so fast). That’s pretty damn risky though. Another thing about HDR guile’s flash kicks in general is that they can handle buttslams REALLY WELL. I can’t throw out a random buttslam in HDR.
Also the ochio is the main reason I do better in VST. I also still think Lp headbutt is garbage in HDR. Deejay can punish it with walk up slide or cr.mk and he can just wait in the corner full screen and react to what ever you do.
If you are playing a Guile who likes to do absolutely nothing but sit in a corner, it’s hell. Trying to use Neutral Fierce over booms gets you a FK in the face every time from hella far away.
When I have a good Guile in the corner I try to pressure them with a combination of cr.MK (to stuff their cr.MKs), buffered HHS (after cr.MK, cr.jab, st.jab, or after another HHS) or towards+HK to trip their Sonic Boom start-up (and get a knock-down). Guile’s new HK flashkick can hit the towards+HK sweep on reaction to seeing it come out or it’s recovery (its very slow). Making a risk one of Honda’s best ways to stop Sonic Booms (without a down charge).
Most good Guiles won’t throw Sonic Booms when Honda is in a postion to hurt him for it with a jump-in or Sumo Smash, so if they see me stand or walk forward a step they will usually throw a Sonic Boom, which I’m anticipating with a well timed/spaced HK sweep. Now they can wait and just HK FK my big, fat leg. I tend to throw more cr.MKs in reaction to this (Flashkick won’t hit) but that lets him get off more Booms to push me back/cause chip mdamage. Either that or just go into a stare off and dare him to throw a Boom, which even if I react correctly to he can counter if he’s faster than me (that’s why I generally try to pressure them until I get an opening).