Tomorrow we shall have a gathering. Anyone and everyone is invited. The more the merrier. Anyone new who wants to join us please text me at 310 344 9367.
Hope to see you tomorrow.
Tonight we shall have a gathering. Anyone and everyone is invited. The more the merrier. I’ll be going around to collect the E fee so please have it ready when I ask. Anyone new who wishes to join us please text me at 310 344 9367.
Hope to see y’all tonight:)
GGs, everyone. Thanks Lee for helping me out with SF4. Same goes to you Grant for helping me improve my game in 3s.
BRING BACK KOF, DON! IT’S A GOOD GAME! D8
It’s Lee not Will lol.
KOF is a great game but I think we got something here with Vampire Savior.
Thank you everyone for joining us on Friday. We had eight people. There was some good ST, 3S, and Vampire Savior competition. We should play Vampire more. Not only does it look cool it’s actually quite deep. Thanks Carlos for showing the way your Dudley in 3S is awesome as well.
Thank you Mr. 12, Karafail, Rufus, Carlos, Lee, Erosentinel, Mike, and John.
Thanks everyone and let’s do this again on Friday.
I’m in a reflective mood and I’ve been thinking about this. When it comes to Fighting Games, I realized now more than ever that the ten year run of MVC2 and 3S was something rare and in a special moment in time. In general fighting games are like super hero movies in the way that they have to be repackaged and updated. For example and this is just an example, the first two Superman movies are probably gonna be the best Superman films ever made but to make Superman modern and relevant for today’s audience they’re gonna have to make a new one. What I’m saying even though MVC2 and 3S are perfect classic games, they are not gonna be seen as “eternal games” like checkers and chess. And if there’s money to be made then they’ll churn out new fighting games.
The reason why I’m saying this is because I think it’s doubtful to expand the 3S community to newer players. One of the guys who went to EVO told me that when the ST legends tourney finals was on a lot of the audience members left because they didn’t want to see an old man’s game lol. I hear the same setiment from new generation players saying they don’t want to play 3S because it’s a game that is 10 years old. I kinda of understand this attitude because as you know I’m a movie buff and I like studying the movie industry. When it comes to movies Hollywood can’t just really sit on the classics no matter how great they are. They have to keep making new movies to feed the current audience no matter how shitty the new movies are. The problem with this is that the newer audience will not learn about the classics and be fed the new crappy stuff hence lower the taste of the products made. I think this lack of quality is a reason why the new fighting games are so so.
I realize that in entertainment mediums, whether they be movie or video games, the product production moves very fast. There’s always gonna be a new movie next week and a new fighting game in the next six months. And the machine doesn’t care if they saturate the market and destroy the players desire to commit since they got their money anyway. I remember when it was just MVC2 it was just MVC2. I remember when it was just 3S it was just 3S. And when it was just SF4 it was just SF4. And the quality of competition in these environments, mainly because they were in an arcade setting, was great. Now with all these games coming out the quality of competition is getting worse OR maybe we were just lucky before.
Maybe it was just a miracle that strong communities formed when it was just MVC2, 3S, and SF4. And now that miracle is ending. To be honest with you though, everything in an entertainment medium moves fast. There’s always gonna be a newer better show, playing next week. The ten year MVC2/3S run wasn’t mean to happened and what normally happens is that there’s suppose to be a new fighting game every six months. Which means there’s not enough time to concentrate and learn a game and most important form a strong stable community around that game. So I don’t know. I guess all I have to say is that I’m lucky and fortunate to have dedicated players visit me every week for almost two years lol.
But having said all that an arcade is a business too. Even though the arcade coin per play system is designed to pressure players to get better, it’s also a business model to make money. The reason why arcades made a lot of money and were popular with consumers in the Golden Age SF2 days is because SF2 was something that no one ever seen because and the game itself was designed to be played repeatedly. This meant the more money you spent the more fun it would be. The arcade system for the players and the arcade business model were linked to help each other. But like the modern day Batman, the tradition changed and the arcade system for the most part is gone. If it does survive it’s only because there’s still a passionate community that still wants to play MVC2, 3S, ST, and SF4 on a machine. Today the business for selling fighting games and the enviornment for developing fighting game communities are the antithesis of one another. It’s no good for companies if players just stick to the same game. The total opposite of the SF2 Arcade Golden Age where business was in perfect harmony with the community of players.
This reminds me of the new guy Carlos who is a young guy but a total throwback when it comes to fighting games. It’s like this guy was born 15 years too late. This guy is so into Jo-Jo’s bizarre, 3S, and Vampire Savior. He plays these games on a very deep level. From him I learned all these things about Vampire that didn’t exist. VS is almost as techincal as 3S. His ethusiasm made me wanna learn Vampire, kinda. I wish there were an army of young players like him but it’s a miracle to know that at least a few like him exist.
Doesn’t matter, Rumble Fish revival. I am completely excited about this, hot damn oh man.
You know I could get that game lol. I got a Atomiswave system laying around in my house. What’s better part 1 or 2?
I also have Fighter’s History if anyone interested in a revival:p
But people tell me that Fist of The Northstar is the best atomiswave fighting game.
That true?
The best version of Fist of The Northstar is the one where you have to punch 8 targets in front of you like a boxing sim.
From what I’m gathering here, it sounds like you’re reluctant to know guys like Grant, Carlos, I who just admire the old games on that level, despite how we’re 15 years too late in a way, Don. In a strange way, despite all of us knowing that 3s, VS, and some of the other older games aren’t going to go anywhere, they’re still very much timeless and worth playing. My industry is very fast paced, as you’ve mentioned, when it comes down to generating new things for people to buy to sink their teeth into, but they’re also not very good about moderating what they put out and the ways in which players will maintain what they’re given.
There’s a saying in the indie scene that the commercial side of our industry is always 5 years too late, meaning that they don’t catch up to emerging models and debunk very bad and old methods for game development until everyone else knows about it. For example, every game have multiplayer now even if they’re not really designed for it. The intentions of the industry are to create communities, not competitive environments, per se, which technically discourage a good percentage of people wanting to get involved. The model they technically want requires community support, but the industry has no idea how communities like the FGC work or why we continue to play – DLC be damned. Why? Because the people who get involved in the industry are either businessmen or coming from a field that has nothing to do with gaming communities both competitively and fanatically.
As far as the older games, they survived – thankfully – because of the arcade scene only having what was available. Despite the stagnation, the situation with 3s, MvC2, and CvS2 is almost ideal for what a game that requires confidence and commitment needs to survive, minus the lack of support to maintain the quality of the products. The problem at the heart of everything here is moderation and support, something the gaming industry doesn’t seem to understand at all. If it did, then SF4 would draw in Starcraft levels of money, and we wouldn’t have had a SFxT so soon, if at all. The sad thing is that the industry is trying to make sense of scenes like ours by making “e-sports” games now, which…I shouldn’t even have to bring up how stupid and redundant that sounds. My point is that even though the appropriate models for making money in the industry may seemingly be the 6 month plan, that doesn’t dismiss the fact that more money can’t be made with a model that supports communities with a strong passion to play. The cookie-cutter shit in the industry isn’t right, and it shouldn’t apply to all games – that’s not fair to the people who are doing EXACTLY what they’re intended to do to by designers to enjoy a game, especially if the game is extremely complex to master. SF4, for example, had a consistent community up until, I’d say, Marvel 3 appeared, but why is it that Capcom is JUST NOW supporting it? The fuck is that? 3s, VS, and a lot of the older games may have missed that train, but I’m very hopeful in a possible future (despite the pms I’m getting from journalist and developer friends in the industry telling me how the industry is so out of sync with reality these days) because awareness is how most of this garbage gets fixed.
Just my two cents.
You’re right these games are going no where but I was hoping like you guys there would be new blood for these games. A lot more new blood. I thought SF4 was a gateway for the older classics but for the most part it’s not. Most people will stick with the current games. Even though it was successful, looking back now from a critical standpoint, I don’t think there was really a point in SF4 being made. Yes it brought in a new audience and a new group of players but the game itself was an unworthy follow up to 3S. That’s why a lot of 3S players hated it for the most part. SF4 the game never really moved the genre forward. When it comes to mechanics the gameplay is an insult to Super Turbo and Third Strike. Sorry for being harsh. I mean it created fun times because it brought players together which I think that’s the most valuable thing the game has ever done. BUT, for me being a 3S player, it really didn’t effect the 3S community. It was fine that 3S was in the shadows and there were these great communites hidden all over So Cal. The 3S communities were like (bad analogy) gay clubs in the 1950’s. They were small and hidden but they were lively because they were all a concentration of like minded people. Going to FFA and seeing ten machines packed was Third Strike heaven. SF4 just for lack of a better term “Mickey Moused” the community. A lot of the newly SF4 players, not all, had no interest in trying out the classic games. Ya we had a bigger FGC but not necessarily a deeper one. And this what’s happen when you broaden your audience, you need to make the taste mainstream so everyone can digest it.
Going with my movie industry comparison, maybe because there’s so much money invested in creating a game that the corporations don’t want to throw a lot of money at something new or original because they fear it might not work or sell. That’s why the major movie studios use the super hero/fantasy formula i.e. Avengers, Harry Potter, Batman. Because they know that it sells and they’ll get their money back. Try something original like today’s equivalent of a Tarkovsky or Robert Altman film (which you guys should watch btw) and the studios are afraid of the risk because it’s not proven that the audience will buy it. The same goes, I think, with the video game industry. What sells: Call of Duty, Madden, etc. Not some revolutionary fighting game that has new mechanics. Even the fighting gamemakers are scared because they’re just making old wine and putting them in new bottles. It’s all about money. They’re even scared scare of putting money into a classic game and rereleasing it as it was. Take 3SO for example. They could just barebones and port the arcade version. They had to fuck with it and make it modern somehow. Which totally alienated their target audience. The 3S community. Like major movie studio execs, I think video game corporations suffer from the same thing. They’re cowards who don’t want to take risk. And their greedy. It’s all about money.
It’s funny that you say that because on eventhubs it says that Capcom admitted that they made too many fighters in a short time lol. What’s humorous about all this is that when Capcom threw their hat back in the ring and made SF4 and found it was successful every other company jumped on the bandwagon and made their fighting game. Not only that Capcom capitalized on their own success and made more fighting games. I guess MVC3 was good because it created a great community here in the states but Strekken was a disaster. I don’t think it was even about quality at that point it was about making more money by implementing the gem system. With Ono and Killian mediating they knew what the players wanted. When players cried out for no gems before the game came out, they ignored it anyway. Capcom halfassed the project when it came to Strekken. MK9 surprisingly was a good quality product if not great. They had players test it before it came out and did all the research and ended up with a really good game. It’s just that MK never appealed to people who played Capcom or SNK fighting games.
But I think I’m being too ideal again. The same thing was happening in the SF2 Golden Age when they were churning out fighting games back then because they found a successful formula. Primal Instinct and Fighter’s History and Violent Fight come to mind. Heck even Super Turbo, today considered a masterpiece, bombed at the arcades because people wanted to move on to MK3 and Killer Instinct. The real SF2 game was Hyper Fighting. There was no ST scene. Capcom only got back into the fighting game scene after they got the Marvel license because no one was playing Vampire Savior in America.
But I think my point is that the players are really the one who create the community phenonmena as in SF2 and then SF4. When the corporation see this all their thinking about is how to bank off of it. This is really how they kill a scene. It’s never about culture with them it about how to make money off of it as much as they can. When a movie series has a successful franchise they want to make a sequel and if the sequel does good they want to make another sequel. Usually when they make the third movie it’s gonna suck i.e Return of the Jedi, Spiderman 3, Godfather 3. Things are made to end because there’s really nothing more you can do. With Capcom’s new fighting game trilogy there was SF4, then Marvel 3, and then Strekken. The third game Strekken should have never been made.
I think the general point here is that most consumers desire the familiar product rather than the new. That’s why SF4 succeeded and why 3S failed. I think it’s like why a majority like The Dark Knight and think The Dark Knight Rises is not that impressive (well online anyway on movie forums). It’s because The Dark Knight was the classical story of Batman and Joker who almost everyone knows about. Whereas Dark Knight Rises is the new story of Batman and Bane who not everyone is familiar with. That’s why a lot of stars in Hollywood remind us of older stars. Leonardo looks like James Dean. Anne Hathaway reminds people of Julia Roberts (Kinda). And almost every blonde reminds everyone of Marilyn Monroe.
Consumers like it safe for the most part. They like WWE and not ECW.
No one likes WWE. People liked ECW. 
ECW! ECW!
Tomorrow we shall have a gathering. Anyone and everyone is invited. The more the merrier. Anyone new text me at 310 344 9367.
Hope to see you tomorrow:)
Tonight we shall have a gathering from 7pm-4am. Anyone and everyone is invited. The more the merrier. I’ll be going around to collect the E fee so please have it ready when I ask. Anyone new who wishes to join us please text me at 310 344 9367.
Hope to see you tonight:)
GGs, everyone. I don’t ever want to play against Makoto again. All night, even on AE (not as bad, but still). It’s like having a gun to your head, and if you don’t disarm it quickly, you die. I died several dozen times over in a 6 hour period. Demoralized for 6 hours straight. Stop picking on the black kid, k? D=
SF4 isn’t too bad the more I play it, but getting around the gimmicks and this spd stuff is weird. Even though my scrubby intermediate level 3rd Strike game translates well for blocking, conditioning, and reads, 70% of the time I feel robbed. It really does feel like the game forces you to option select everything or set up near inescapable situations to win consistently. I’m not sure how I feel about that, although I’m nowhere near as intimidated compared to 3rd Strike’s “guess wrong once = you die” nonsense. Yeah, so what if I do the same thing in that game now. I earn my touch of death in that game (Makoto excluded) ! >=(
I like this analogy.
Thank you everyone last Friday for attending. It was fun. A lot of 3S and even AVP action. We had thirteen people join us. Thank you Rufus, Mr. 12, Karafail, Vincent, Mainman, Arcade Game, Mace, Danny, Lee, Joe, Jason, John, and ALAX.
Thank you everyone and let’s try this again on Friday.
So I just read the article on the homepage about EVO Top 8 KOF player Reynald. I use to play this guy all the time 3S at Regency and it’s amazing how I witnessed the transition in Reynald going from a scrub in 3S to a guy streaking on a lot of good players. It was a fast progression because it all happened less than a year. Now he made the transition to KOFXIII and did very well. To me this is rare in this day in an age where only a few players can be good from one game to another in the FGC. Usually everyone stays in their box. When I think of someone’s success the age old question comes up: Is the person talented or does the person work really hard? In the interview Reynald says he doesn’t have time to practice long so he puts his time into the analysis of the game’s engine.
I personally think that successful players in the tournament scene have the atitude to do what ever it takes to make them better and win. Whether it be thinking about the game and studying it or putting in eight hours a day practicng. It’s a matter if you want it. You’ll do whatever it takes to prepare to do good to win. It’s about putting in the time. Whether it be being mentally ready or working on your muscle memory to better your execution. Do what ever it takes to win and be good. No excuses. Now not everyone can do this (including myself). Not everyone can be dedicated to a fighting game. But for the few that can they really shine.
Now the backlash to this is that it’s a waste of time to practice all day and give big chunks of your life just to be good at a fighting game. A lot of people tell me that it’s a waste of life. To me this is horseshit. Being good at a fighting game is no different than practicing the guitar all day or going to the gym to get buff or obessessing over chess. It’s honorable to practice a craft and perfect it. To me playing a fighting game at a high level is one of the most sophisticated artforms there is today. And to see the results of someone’s work like Reynald is, as corny as it sounds, life affirming.