Collector’s comes with more gems to use in game, which may end up being DLC in teh future, the awesome arcade coin bank, the comic in the manual.
Good stuff.
AND ASUKA. DAT ASS. DAT … SWEAT GIRL.
Not for me.
So after taking SFxT for a test drive today I realized what this is all about: All the games made from SF4 on are just “3D” remakes of all the games made from 1991-2006 (From the beginning of SF2WW to Alpha the Versus Series to Tekken to CVS2 all the way to SVC and everything in between). These new games are just remakes of the games I grew up with and no innovation. SFxT feels a lot like Tekken Tag and CVS2 with a dash of SVC.
The last time that Capcom trully took a risk was with 3S. Whenever I pop in these new games now they have nothing really new to offer. Old wine in new bottles. Yes they may be fun but need more complication. Or has everything been done already and there’s no more innovation?
No, there’s room for innovation, alright. The key issues are that A. the original team behind SF3 left the company a long time ago, B. Japanese game developers aren’t nearly as progressive in game design as they should be, but that’s more of a cultural issue, and C. Capcom realized during the development of SF4 that they needed to attract both a newer audience and people who were familiar with the older games minus the frustration of play, NOT improve upon what sucked in 3s, Alpha, and CvS2. I specifically remember Ono saying years ago that he didn’t want that gap between high level players and beginners, which is unrealistic to even ask for, but whatever.
I think I talked to Grant and John about this before: if Capcom wanted to make a forth version of SF3, with the meta game knowledge known in the tournament scene (along with removing things from the game that can and will create balance issues), it would be downright insane, and easily be one of the more sophisticated games to play. However, sophistication doesn’t equal money. KOF13 (console release) was, in my honest opinion, the very definition of a tournament viable game. You HAVE to practice everyday to play KOF13 correctly and consistently – the learning curve makes 3rd Strike look tamed on certain levels. Truth known, this doesn’t make for a very enjoyable game for 85% of the rest of the people who play, which is partly why you see this weird trend from Capcom to reintroduce SF in an entirely different light with game play that’s far more digestible for the masses.
I haven’t bothered to buy SFxT yet – I’ll play it when I show up tomorrow. I’m expecting some neat stuff, but I’m still not 100% sure how it’ll end up being.
I can tell you what Capcom REALLY needs to jump on though: guard crushing, air blocking, static health values for everyone so that female characters don’t take damage like fucking wet tissue for no reason, valid story modes that actually feature a well thought out story, better tutorial modes that teach you situations not “hold down-back to block low”, better defensive tools (rolling, guard canceling, variable tech rolling options, etc.), removing crouch tech, 1 frame crouching (fuzzy guard has no place in SF, period), removing shortcuts, meaties, establishing a universal rule for what’s allowed to be canceled as opposed to randomly labeling what can or cannot (KOF gets this much right), variable super systems and sub systems like CvS2 or Alpha 2 that have ACTUAL value as choices versus super art selection in SF3 or SF4 that are situational and occasionally superfluous – I can go all fucking night because there’s so~~~ much room to do way more and make things much more efficient. >=P
Heck, I’ll throw in a mechanic I really want to see refined and innovated: Vampire Savior’s OTG system, the one where you pounce on a guy when they’re on knockdown, or perform ex OTGs. Expand on the knock-down game so that it’s not exclusively about wake-up dp, like Tekken. There’s no reason why SF should be limited to the ground and air game when the knock-down game already exists in some context.
You’re right about KOFXIII being that highly skilled technical game for the current gen. That’s why a lot of people are avoiding it. It’s like 3S, how players today avoid it like the flu. It’s just too difficult. Oh well that’s the world we live in lol. I kind of feel bad now that I have to take it out and put in SFxT. But I aim to please and I only put in the games that’s popular in the community when it comes to the consoles.
Street Fighter X Tekken will be available tonight to play so enjoy!!! Tonight we shall have a gathering. Anyone and everyone will be invited. The more the merrier. Anyone new who wants to join us please text me at 310 344 9367. I’ll be going around to collect the E fee so please have it ready when I ask for it.
Hope to see all y’all tonight.
Did anyone pick up any extra copies that they’re willing to sell?
Not me:(
Hey resres if you show up tonight can you please ask your brother if I can get my Mishima DVD back? Lol.
Am I understanding it right that you want all of that in one game? Or am I wrong, and you want that spread out across different games? Excluding the tutorial, short cuts, and meaties, there is a bit there I agree with disagree with. Sub systems would be nice, but those are really reserved or held on to for major Versus games, or just the Alpha series, and there’s a reason for that if you look at Capcom’s approach to their games today, and that’s accessibility. You said it right yourself why they are making games newbie friendly but are still good to watch at high level play when you understand it ( IE: 3rd STrike top play, you better know what the hell you’re watching or else it just looks scrubby ) and that’s because it won’t be enjoyable to, as you said, 85% of the people playing.
KOF has ALWAYS been like that and they’ve chosen not to move away from that model. I guess that works out for them because they’re holding to their roots. Capcom’s just expanding on it and the return from the fans has been mixed in that it’s good, it’s bad, but at the end, they’re making a hell of a lot of money for what they’ve chosen to go with. You can look at it and think that I’m making this about money, which I kinda think the same as I write this up, but at the end of the day, I think the communities make these games what they are a lot more than the companies. The makers just throw in the options, and we choose how far we’ll roll with it.
Look at SF4. A lot of people didn’t want to play it, but chose to do because it was still popular, and bringing in good tournament scenes and prizes. MVC3 with one touch of death combos in it? I know people hate those one touch kills, but that game brings in a huge crowd because of how the community has made that series so it’s expected. We make these games what they are, be it more enjoyable than they should be, or down right complexicated. SF4 versus Virtua Fighter, if you want to see what I’m getting at there.
Now, SFxT? It may not have the defensive tutorials, but christ are these combos really, really practical, and very good for understanding your BnB. Plus, what you can and cannot cancel into. Every character in the game has links in one way or another, and this game shows you some, not all because that’s too much hand holding, imo. The canceling system makes a LOT of sense with links canceling into Special, EX, Supers or Cross Assaults. Chains can only cancel into EXes, and I’m assuming it’s because how easy the chains are so it’s a penalty. You want to do a quick brain dead 1 2 3 Launch combo, but want to do something other than a tag launch, you burn that meter. Otherwise, you better do your trials to learn what your character can and cannot do in the situations I mentioned. Definitely not the same tutorial mode that Virtua Fighter is known to be godlike for, but that’s a different demon all together.
Every game has it’s own flavor and style, but we can’t really add in everything into one game, can we? SFxT is already pushing a LOT onto it’s plate, so I’m not sure if adding more to it would be ideal, and would really derp a lot of people looking at it from the outside and only us on the in would know the stuff. The game is really, really fun, and I’ma have to paraphrase Renic when he was asked about the game, and there hasn’t been a game to really make me want to play as much as this. MVC3 was great, and I dropped it for a bit to just learn up from other people. This game I’ve broken a lot down to understand mechanics on one character and I just don’t want to go in the threads on SRK to tell people what’s wrong about the info they posted.
I dunno, early morning rant’ are great. But… I just literally woke up and read these posts and a lot flew into mind. @_@
I think I complained about SFxT having a lot for a game like it; so no, I don’t want everything I listed out to be put into one game since some of that stuff would conflict very easily. The principle issues I’ve had with Capcom for a while now have mostly revolved around creating games that don’t necessarily bridge the gap well between ease of play and mastery without haphazardly creating issues in some area that makes play very wonky. 3S is a good example: characters lose viability if they can’t convert properly from parry or red parry, like Dudley or Hugo, but most people don’t know that without exploring the game for a good long time. Other characters don’t need to work at all because of the variable meter costs to perform supers (Yun, Chun, Ken). All noted, this is balance related on the higher levels (character specialization overlooked), but 3S is a horrible game to jump into without a fundamental understanding of parry and a lot of the stuff we take likely, which takes years to comprehend on your own. It’s a game for the dedicated, but fails horribly to show you how to properly play it at the lowest levels compared to something like Super Turbo or SF4.
The conflicting point with Capcom expanding and doing their own thing – which I respect – is that some of the games that they have put out aren’t very good for counterproductive reasons associated with their goals for simplifying the formula. Their decisions with MvC3’s button layout? Smart. They’re estranged fixation on 1 frame links, unique health values that DO create imbalances, wide reversal/option select windows, and “dp should beat everything!!! =O”? Meh. Most of these issues that they’re trying to address concerning the player are rudimentary design flaws found in player education (not just system mechanics), which can be remedied with comprehensible player exercises. How do games normally do this? Tutorials disguised as story modes, aka campaigns, single player, or whatever the heck you want to call them. This is an entirely different topic altogether, and I still haven’t eaten breakfast yet to bother. Dx
SFxT changes things up a bit, which is a moot point for pros and cons – I won’t shit on it. Regardless, like you said, the community eats up what they can get despite quality, and sure, high-level play could be a counter point for quality, but the same could be said for what the FGC did with Catherine…which is the greatest fighting game that never was, imho. My hope is that SFxT finds a good middle ground where SF4 failed to be compelling. I like my complexity, sure, but I’m more interested in a game that actually engages me, gives me appropriate tools for problems, isn’t devolving formulas that have proven to be reliable, and doesn’t alienate everyone else if they don’t know every little minor detail. Maybe this is why I like Skullgirls as much as I do. =P
So far there is a really good middle ground right now with SFxT that addresses to some of the things you mentioned about SF4. From what I can tell right now, Anti Airs do not have the same ridiculous invincibility in SF4 and will trade a LOT of the time. Of course, let’s not add in Hugo’s anti air grab because that is god damn out top tier with how fast and good it is. I will say, however, the Tekken cast seems really really strong in this game. I’ve already found a nice block string with Asuka that keeps me safe with you in heavy guard stun, and you’re only bet is to just Alpha Counter out of it. And you know what? Alpha counter does no damage so I lose spacing.
I do dislike the crazy 3 in 1 option selects people find, and I’m really content with the OS’ in 3rd Strike, but if any I’d settle with just crouch teching only. As for your comment about player education and exercises, I don’t think the companies should go that far out of their way to show everyone just 100% what the game is capable of. There must be a balance of where the Company goes, “Hey guys, our system can do X, Y, Z” and fans go, “Well can we do A, B, C?!” The only thing I feel is correct is “GO EXPERIMENT, PLAY THE GAME. FIND IT OUT.” We are the community, we find these things out, we pass the knowledge out, it shouldn’t be on the Company’s end. We’re the players, we’re the ones killing the game, or hyping it out.
Look at the CVS2 roll glitch when it first learned of. The guy found something amazing, abused it, and only after he won a tournament with it did he show off just what it is. MVC3? Air Exchange gets countered? X Factor and Air Exchange again and you win to continue on. Pretty sure that wasn’t learned of either.
I’m ranting, but I think my point is made. There’s gotta be some kind of middle ground where the Company puts out the baby steps, which I feel they do right, and then the rest of the learning is on us, the players. When it comes to a matter of player education in general, my from-the-hip-response is that players now are just lazy and want everything to be spoon fed to them on youtube.
I’m cool with learning tech on the fly and discovering new things – that shouldn’t be left up to Capcom, Reverge, or Arksys to dictate. My main issues concern the basics and when and where to apply them. That much isn’t normally covered in fighting games unless you visit a forum which is a bit silly because the basics make up for the general mindset the player needs to correctly utilize the tools within the games without a lot of trial and error. Understanding block-string pressure, punishing grabs, understanding what makes up bad habits, reading patterns, knowing basic terminology, etc… Truth, we have a large enough community to where we can create resources for problems like this on the fly and way~~~ more than I personally think is okay (excessive spoon feeding, but nonetheless). That’s great and all, but it excuses the very fundamental problem that fighting games by design have: they don’t teach you how to play them without derivative elements masking the essentials. Other games at least put you through the courses – it’s common practice in any other genre of game. The only reason it’s not prevalent in fighting games is because their design is based around the arcade format, which is more about pick-up and play like it has always been for the past 25 years. If this weren’t true, SFxT’s design wouldn’t mirror so many games before it, despite it’s numerous features and being console exclusive. Gems were a recognition of the problem, like the trials in Marvel and SF4, but not a solution.
It’s obvious something like that would require time to develop in a game, but not every game is supported by our community like the Capcom games to teach you the basics. I hate being told how to play, but I do like being told how to win and be consistent when faced with common scenarios.
Either or, I just want to play SFxT to see how they messed around with Ibuki! DX<
Yo Don, want me to bring my copy of SFxT for PS3? Or do you have enough for two or more consoles covered?
Thanks. No I only have one copy. Bring it if you can.
One night only:
No CVS2 tonight! Guilty Gear Accent Core is in!
Alpha 3 is in!!!
Of course this is all being overshadowed by SFxT
A part of me thinks you did this on purpose…=|
I heard rumors there might be some Guilty Gear comp tonight but don’t quote me on that.
Im stopping by in a few to play 3S. Bringing some buddies to play GG if ya’ll want that beef.
GGs all. I completely forgot to play SFxT while I was there. Guilty Gear stole my heart away, unfortunately. How did you guys like SFxT?
I really like it, however the bane of my fighting game career is still strong in this game. I fucking hate Guile. Good fun times all around though, was good seeing and talking it up with you, Steve, if you even read this, LOL. I was the guy that approached you about your time with Cross Assault and such.
Rest of you, practice up your game! I’ll be back in two weeks to show off some more. And I will learn how to beat Guile.