Does Phoenix "break" game play?

[Mikeomak]

lol ok

K thought so.

You yourself aren’t actually discussing anything. You’re simply shouting your opinion as loudly and as often as possible until people give in out of sheer frustration. This thread is done, it’s not going anywhere, and it apparently never was. You respond to every weakness or counter strategy with “lol if Phoenix gets hit with that it’s her fault”. You want something that actually makes Phoenix dangerous to use? Team hypers. They auto correct, and there’s enough of them like Hail Storm and Hyper Charging Star that you can use them to not only punish a teleport, but an x-factor activation. With that, I’m done here because it’s obvious you aren’t looking for discussion, just people to agree with you.

It is a discussion thread. If you look earlier in the thread before people came in with “stop whining” there was actual discussion going on. I’m not looking for people to agree with me. I want them to voice what they think, why, and get a discussion going. As for the whole lol phoenix hit with it its her fault" part; your telling me if a phoenix get hits for throwing a full screen fireball by magnetos level 3 that it automatically becomes a counter because that player decided to throw an unsafe fireball? No. I am NOT saying “oh magnetos level 3 is complete crap and should never be used against phoenix because she unbeatable” but that is clearly a player mistake.Thats like me beating wolverine with Hsien-ko once and going “Well, clearly Hsien-ko counters Wolverine.” I also said that the Zero chip set-up sounds promising and I hope someone can come up with something legit for it that isn’t highly situational.

For actual discussion : I don’t see Team Hypers working very well. If Phoenix is low on meter and shes in yes, but otherwise she has the dark Phoenix explosion which(I don’t know if it would, someone should confirm this or test) might hit them all(or some depending on the hyper?) out of their hypers. If you block you would have to be close enough and hope shes in the air so she doesn’t land during the hypers or have hypers that keep her in the air as to not allow her to activate X-factor. Also you would need to have the bars for it and not have characters dead. I guess you would have to try out individual team hypers that would keep her in the air and chip her out at the same time(while maybe taking up full screen as not to be punished by teleporting straight out of transformation)

[Mikeomak]

What if I made this thread into a Anti Phoenix Theory crafting thread or something where I’ll update the OP with strategies each character/Team can use against her? I did a quick search and didn’t see any. Just a few on single finds but no thread dedicated to it. Sound good?

[Nooneyouknow]

You hit the team hyper either when she activates x-factor or teleports. After she’s Dark. They hit instantly after super flash, so if she’s not already blocking, which she obviously wasn’t because x-factor does have recovery frames, she can’t start afterwords. And Magneto sitting on 3 meters neuters Phoenix’s game play whether or not she throws a fireball, because she can’t. That’s what a counter does, it limits options. The only thing she can do against gravity squeeze is walk forward, because anything else can be punished. It’s simply a test of reactions, and that’s a bad game for Phoenix to play.

[Nooneyouknow]

What if I made this thread into a Anti Phoenix Theory crafting thread or something where I’ll update the OP with strategies each character/Team can use against her? I did a quick search and didn’t see any. Just a few on single finds but no thread dedicated to it. Sound good?

Anti-Phoenix Strategy/Teams

I’m not mad about Sent anymore, I’m mad about Phoenix. It seems to me that if your team can’t land a combo into a snap in to kill Phoenix, you’re basically gonna lose. This means keepaway teams just won’t work against Phoenix teams, ever. By the time you kill a Phoenix player’s first two characters, they’re bound to have 5 bars and level 3 X-factor stored up. Even snapping her isn’t a free win if they have basic defense. If they come in blocking, they can push you out and then fly away and thr…

…it’s the next thread down on the page. How could you miss it?

[Mikeomak]

Anti-Phoenix Strategy/Teams

…it’s the next thread down on the page. How could you miss it?

Hmm, well I type “Anti Phoenix” into the search and that thread didn’t pop up. Though that guy doesn’t update the Op.

[ShieldSkills]

Logan >> Jean

[Proto_Blues]

Entire thread is bawwwwwwwwwwwwwww
**honestly.
**No, Phoenix doesn’t break gameplay. That sentence makes no sense. Does she require a unique strategy?..not really. She has the lowest HP in the game, requires a 5 meter super and a level 3 x factor to truly remain stable with a declining health of equal proportion, I really don’t see how anyone sits on a thrown of ass pain to this. The retorts in this thread are absolutely hilarious as well. It’s just childish and I think will cause an un-necessary knee jerk nerf just because people refuse to learn this game.

“What’s a glass cannon? What do you mean I need to learn to snapback? What do you mean I need to learn to punish? I HAVE TO LEARN THIS GAME TO WIN? I DONT WANNAAAAAAAAA”

It’s just frustrating. I’m seriously waiting for this game to get reduced to two buttons.
“Win” and “Lose.”

[Sleazoid]

Viper’s FA in combination with Amaterasu cold wave

uhhh

Viper’s FA in combination with Dante jam session

there we go

also you’s a fool if you think dog throwing you and then getting a whopping 400 damage is a big deal

[J.D]

So? People with dates after 09 have contributed to this thread more then you have. Either talk about the topic or leave. It’s that simple. If you don’t like a topic ignore it or report it, but to come in here and bash people because the date on their SRK profile is signed up after 09 is not needed and doesn’t contribute to the topic. Also, how do you know I wasn’t on these forums since before 09? I could have made a new name or lurked. How do you know multiple people didn’t do that?

So either discuss the topic or leave. If you don’t have anything about the topic of Phoenix and gameplay it doesn’t have to be said.

First of all
Did you read the title of the thread before creating it?
its totally relevant to mention that the vast majority of people in here doesnt want to adapt to the situation so they would rather just have it patched by claiming it breaks the game. While there are legitimate arguements on how phoenix is hard to deal with, having a specific thread to talk about it isnt necessary. A more useful discussion would be based on strategies to deal with her. If it gets patched, it got patched, until then, learn the game, and learn how to play against her.Im not bashing new members, I’m telling the players who do want to get better and adapt to the situation that they shouldnt listen to the mediocre players who dont want to adapt.

Second, I can totally tell you werent involved in this forums before 09 because you don’t know the difference between posters Pre-SF4 to Post-SF4.
Third, this thread doesnt contribute anything whatsoever to the game or its players, its all theory fighting, so dont tell me I aint contributing anything cause neither are you…

4th, if you’re going to create a thread, and you only want the replies to have the format that you want, then you should add that in the OP.
Include a section at the bottom that says “I only accept these types of replies, and anyone who posts differently will be subject to my e-dick”, and we could all save some time.

I’ll leave this thread at your request because I dont want to interfere in this incredibly productive discussion.

[Mikeomak]

Dark Phoenix CAN be a pain to get rid of, and some people might go as far as to say she breaks the game.BUT, know this; You can kill Phoenix(Jean) without letting her transform into Dark Phoenix, which is by killing her in the middle of any super that sends you into an animation. some examples: Deadpool(Cuttin’ Time),Wolverine(Weapon X), Magneto(Gravity Squeeze), and Spencer(Bionic Manouvers). This changes MANY things about Phoenix, as you can skip having to deal with Dark Phoenix and skipping the hastle of having to look for a random opening. I hope this small piece of advice helps any of you.

I’m 99% sure this is not true.

[Nooneyouknow]

Dark Phoenix CAN be a pain to get rid of, and some people might go as far as to say she breaks the game.BUT, know this; You can kill Phoenix(Jean) without letting her transform into Dark Phoenix, which is by killing her in the middle of any super that sends you into an animation. some examples: Deadpool(Cuttin’ Time),Wolverine(Weapon X), Magneto(Gravity Squeeze), and Spencer(Bionic Manouvers). This changes MANY things about Phoenix, as you can skip having to deal with Dark Phoenix and skipping the hastle of having to look for a random opening. I hope this small piece of advice helps any of you.

No.

[Vastago]

So, what do you guys think now that Phoenix has oficially won 2 big tournaments ???

Is she still “balanced”??

[Canis_Trucido]

This seem’s relevent.

http://www.themetagames.com/2011/06/i-am-not-sure-how-much-you-follow-mvc3.html

[TNB]

she has tissue paper health. snap her in. keep her there. If you have mags, xf> squeeze.

also watch novril’s anti phoenix vid.

[HardAppleCider]

Is she broken? I don’t think so. I do think she is stupid broken when she is lvl3 X-factored. I’m pretty sure she’ll still be stupid broken when she’s lvl3 X-factored when UMVC3 comes out. If she’s not, she won’t be good, IMO.

That said, I don’t mind the design. I just wish that it was a bit easier keep lvl3 X-factor DP from coming into play.

Here’s a couple things that would be nice:
-Increase the time that a character is not allowed to hard-tag after being snapped in
–As it is right now, you pretty much get one shot at taking her out, at the cost of one meter and not killing whatever character you were hitting to begin with. If she guesses right, she’s alive.
-Bring back MvC2 hard tags
–In MvC2, somebody hard tags when I’m in the air, I can usually get back down in time to hit them, unless I just SJed up. If I’m on the ground at all, and I block it, I get a free combo no matter where I’m standing.

Those two changes would make her a lot more fair, without changing her design element and without making her useless, imo. I’ve seen Pheonix get snapped in A LOT in one round, in top level play. In my not so top level play, I’ve also experienced the “snap her in over and over” games. It gets tedious, and very frustrating.

I’ve seen J-Wong snap Pheonix in seven times in a round. While seven snaps is an extreme example, four and five snaps is not uncommon for anybody.

Snaps her in
She guesses correctly, and hard tags
Tagged character gets mixed and snapped out
Pheonix guesses correctly and hard tags
Tagged character gets punished for the hard tag and gets snapped out
Pheonix guesses correctly and hard tags
Tagged character gets mixed and gets snapped out
She either dies or has 5 meter
If 5 meter, she goes to DP shortly, then hard tags
The tagged character gets mixed and DP gets snapped in to avoid lvl3XfactorDP

Really frustrating to play, and to watch. If she had to stay in longer when snapped, and if hard tags were easier to punish, this kind of BS wouldn’t happen, and pheonix teams would win by out-playing the opponent every time.

Either that, or make it easier to mix her up on her way in after a snap. I don’t know of a good way to do that tho.

My 2 cents.

[Vastago]

So… Can we agree that Phoenix is a huge factor in a match??

Now that she won everything ( Evo, revla, and ceo ), we can clearly see that she gets to influence the game even when she is not fighting…

Now the topic of disscussion should be, are the nerfs going to be enough to balance her?

And before i go, i would like to point out that every characters gets to use the xfactor, and because of that it should be considered as part of that character and not as a separate thing…